Barrel Steel

Wayne Shaw

Wayne Shaw

Active member
I'm posting this in the Competition forum, because I think only the serious competitors and gunsmiths are concerned about what is going on.

The talk for the past couple years (maybe more) has been the quality of barrel steel. It also seems that the current available steel lends itself more "friendly" to the cut process than the button.

Now please, I'm not bashing the button makers at all. But the trend is leaning heavily toward the cut barrels now, not so much the button barrels.

I do a little barrel work from time to time, and I can see/feel a difference in steel while threading and reaming. I've talked to a number of smiths that have talked about the "new" steel.

So my point in all this is, what about chrome moly? If the 416R steel alloys are questionable now, why not try the CM barrels? I would like to hear what the thoughts are on this, and would this maybe help the steel issue. Would they be more "friendly" to either cut or button process, and make a more competitive barrel? Are they as prone to alloy issues as the 416R?
 
I have a friend thatshoots some krieger CM barrels and i think he does just fine with them. have often wondered this myself Wayne. lee
 
Frank Green of Bartlein has posted he uses CM. I tried a CM HV barrel several years ago and it was a good shooter and lasted just as long as a SS barrel.
Butch
 
Mechanically and erosion resistance, CM should be better. CM, like SS is dependant on the grade. CM SAE 4140, 4340, 8650 and those high strength grades should do better than 416SS. 416SS is used mostly because of ease of machining.
 
Ive heard that Cm barrels are harder than stainless. I don't know if that is good or bad? Id like to know how hard they get after Melonite or Cyro treating and is it a benefit? Thanks Max
 
I see two possible topics here and will touch on one for now.

The c.m. that we spec. and buy is not harder than the 416 SS. Most of it is 30Rc. The mill has a range and it will vary a little bit in the stuff we get. It can vary a couple of points either way but for the most part.

What other barrel makers spec. or buy for they're s.s. and how they control the quality of the material they get or any extra heat treating etc....I will not comment on.

The Melonite and cryo. Melonite is still to new and some of the other treatments being done etc....are variables we cannot control. Some say one process the c.m. steel reacts to the treatment more than s.s. etc....Cryo treating doesn't for the most part make the steel harder. If it does it's like a point or so but for the most part you don't see a change. At least being a barrel maker we haven't seen it.

The c.m. does machine a little different but that's about it. Nothing drastic to say one is easier/better than the other.

Accuracy wise I see no difference with c.m. Yes I do have S.S. barrels for the most part on my match rifles but some of my match guns and all of my hunting rifles have c.m. barrels on them. Why do I put S.S. barrels on my match guns. Don't need to put a finish on them is the main reason.

Guns like a match M14 or when I restored my '03 Springfield as a U.S.M.C. Model 1941 Sniper rifle I put c.m. barrels so they have the parkerized finish put on them. How do they shoot? The '03 has a Unertl scope on it. Timney trigger and I glass bedded the stock. How about a 1/3 moa gun and it will do it at will if you steer it right.

Most of the ammunition test barrels we make are c.m. and the data I've gotten back from ammo makers etc....I see no difference in accuracy vs. a s.s. barrel.

I would lean towards a c.m. barrel lasting longer than a S.S. They do wear differently. I cannot put an exact number on it. It's mostly gut feeling and data that we see but there are so many variables from types of powder a guy is using, what the barrels are chambered in etc....to put exact numbers on it.

A few years ago we made a really good bench shooter some c.m. barrels. Why because he wanted them blued to match his action and he wanted to try some c.m. barrels. First or second match out with them he won one of the bigger bench matches with them.

Also I feel the c.m. is more forgiving in manufacture and stronger in some respects vs. the s.s. My opinion here.

I have no second thoughts though about putting a c.m. barrel on one of my guns. It really comes down to though is what I'm building the gun for and how I want it to look etc....will make me decided what I'm putting on the gun.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Frank, thanks a lot for the input. There are a lot of guys on this forum new to barreling, benchrest, etc. that can get a lot from your and Tracy's experience of many years of barrel making.
 
But is CM more consistent across the board, lot to lot, than the 416? I know people can see and feel the differences in 416. I'm not sure all barrel makers would admit to the differences they have, or if they are having troubles with some. I also realize they are at the mercy of their suppliers. Again,not trying to denigrate anyone in anyway, just asking questions.

Admittedly, I haven't worked on near as many CM as 416. I'm really thinking on trying one next time around, which will be soon.
 
Frank Green
What are the pro & cons of making a barrel harder? Thanks Max
 
This would be a good guestion for the old Springfieid arsenal. I don't think a man in the one man shop, or small family business coild answer this.
 
B.Johnson said:
This would be a good guestion for the old Springfieid arsenal. I don't think a man in the one man shop, or small family business coild answer this.
Click to expand...

Hmm....really? Am I reading this right? With all the years of experience Frank Green has in the business you think his opinion wouldn't be valid? If he had opinions they may not be definitive but I'd think they would be worthy of consideration nonetheless.

Let's not potentially insult and run off another professional that takes the time out of their busy schedule to post when they can.
 
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