ARA Indoor Nationals... ???

T

thescorer

Guest
I've been hearing a little bit of ruckus... what's the deal with double shooting the targets??? From a scorer's point of view (being my own), I personally think that if anyone is to double shoot a bull they should get a big fat ZERO for that particular one. I can't count how many times I have scored a target where someone has shot one bull 2, 3, 4, and even MORE times! There are sighters on the ends of the targets for that. I think that it should state in the rule book that anyone shooting a record bull more than once should get a ZERO for that bull and if they are stupid enough to try that more than once on the target, then they should get a zero for the entire TARGET!! Let's leave the practice shooting for the sighters and the record SHOT (being ONE shot) for the bull!! CLEAN AND SIMPLE!!

Thanks for participating in my survey!! :D

P.S.
Darrell B, Danny P, Richard G, Randy L, Scotty H (sorry baby), Ken H, Don M, Chris P, Marion C, and way too many others.... STOP DOUBLE SHOOTING YOUR TARGETS!! (don't deny it... I've scored targets for ALL of you!!) HAHAHAHAHA!!!
 
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I guess if that were the rules in ARA you would be right but...that's not the rule and we can use any bull for a sighter if we choose with the worst shot counting. I see no reason to change. I score some myself and it causes no problem for me.
 
scoring doubles or more

The rule states that you have to score it but they get the lowest score. I've scored doubles and tripples before and I'm like Don Matzeder in that I don't see any problem.
Larry Burchfield
TGC # 2 ARA match director
Texarkana Gun Club
 
Well you can sure tell it is winter:rolleyes:.....Couldn't you find something of real importance to cry about:(....GET A LIFE !!!;)
 
Well twittle me dee and twittle me dumb, how dumb was I not to take advantage of this last year. Just imagine re-shooting all those 2400's and 2450's last year. Well it's a 50/50 chance you're going to move that first shot just enough to give one the benefit of the higher score and if it pays off for someone then so be it. I don't like it and hope a rule is changed to address this. If one can't get it done with one shot per bull, there's always the next card or next match.

JMHO,
Joe
 
Joe, when I reshoot a target, it's bad enough that no amount of shots will fix it. It just saves time moving all the way to a sighter to find out why it happened.
 
That's something I've done only on very rare occasions and mostly out of frustration. I've scored targets as well and when I come upon one that's been double shot it doesn't cause any more misery for me.
 
Scorer,

What's this I hear about you taking deer by unlawful means at night without a license?
 
Don, have done the same at times when practicing but believe it can become a bad habit for myself when I don't shoot that way in a match. Is it possible that some might try and gamble on the second shot for a possible bump in score I don't know. I don't like it if there is but there is nothing stated in the rules that one can't. It is what it is for now.


Take Care,
Joe
 
I agree they should not be double shot and brought this issue up back in the summer. There are some who say that people will try to put a shot inside the bad shot to cause a movement of the plug and thus a higher score. As far as that goes, if they're that good, more power to them. The reason I objected to it is it tends to throw the scorer, at least until they're used to it. I'm used to it now, so it doesn't really bother me, but I would still say I agree it should be a zero. For the record, I once shot a single bull 14 times. Bad day.
 
Multiple shots per bull

Trust me on this one, there WILL be an amendment to the rules for 2009 and those that purposely shoot multiple shots into a bull to try to make it difficult for the scorer to accurately plug the target will not want to continue this practice.

This problem came to my attention prior to the ARA Nationals over Labor Day, during the regular 2008 season. I had already discussed this problem with some of the other Directors and decided to make a rule change effective for the 2009 season since we don't change rules in the middle of an ARA season. It was at the Indoor Nationals where a number of competitors took the practice to the extreme. Another case of a few causing problems for the many.

There can be only one reason for the multiple shots: to deceive. It is done to try to make the scorer's plug not fit the first legitimate bullet hole placed into that particular bull by elongating it slightly. My question is, if you're such a darned good shot so as to be able to elongate a previously misplaced hole just enough to make the plug not fit properly, why didn't you just shoot a nice clean 100 to begin with? Those that practice this, while currently legal, are not simply pushing into a gray area of the rules, they are trying to get something for nothing. It may have worked a few times, but you guys that do it cheat those that are honest enough to accept the fact that they screwed up and missed the 100 ring with their first shot on the bull.

There will still be a method by which a shooter that DOES have a legitimate malfunction and hits the target with an errant shot will not be punished any more than current rules state, but it won't be one that you guys can abuse the way you're doing now.

If you want to keep the ARA Rule Book the currently thin little pamphlet that it is, simple and concise, just abide by good judgement and honesty. Otherwise, we can make one that covers 99.9% of any possible contingencies and it will take on the bulk of a college dictionary.

Let's keep it simple, fun and honest. Earn what you shoot, demand accurate, honest and consistent scoring everywhere you go, but accept the 25 record shots you placed on the target.

Now. Lecture ended. I'll climb down off my soapbox. Have a nice Christmas! May Santa bring everyone some good scores for next year.

Macky
 
Actually, there can be one other reason. Frustration. That's the only reason I shot one 14 times. I'm not good enough to deceive.
 
Boy do I hate being called a cheat, especially when it's obvious that is not the case.
 
I've seen this a few times, but the ones I can remember have a 0, 10 or 25 with a 50 or 100 and the two bullet holes don't touch. I always assumed the shooter shot the worst shot and then re-shot the bull to figure out what happened thinking they couldn't shoot any worse and basically use the bull as a free sighter without having to move the rest. But as Macky and others have said a few might try to weasel out some extra points, but I have never scored one that I thought that. I would be disappointed if I thought more than .1% of those were really trying to cheat. No better than the NFL or major league baseball if that were the case. But this does concern me with the new professional league. The money is great enough to bring out the worse in us.
 
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What a mess...

WOW... never did I realize how much of a hornet's nest I would stir up just by making a little joke and voicing my opinion. :eek:

Macky, my hat is off to you. You're response was very well thought out and professional. I can always appreciate constructive criticism and honesty even if I don't agree with the actual opinion. In this case, however, I happen to FULLY agree with you Macky. Good job.

I don't have a problem scoring multiple shots in one bull. However, just because I'm not an idiot and can manage to figure out which one is the lower scoring hole, doesn't mean I like scoring those. I just think that the sighter's should be used for taking your aggression out, figuring out the wind, using up ammo, or trying to make pretty patterns INSTEAD of a record bull. And let me clear one more thing up... I NEVER ACCUSED ANYONE OF CHEATING IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM.

Now... Ken, as for my alledged illegal killing of a deer... My buck could be nicer than yours! You had to go all the way to Illinois to get yours and I only had to drive a mile from my house to get mine. Also, my weapon of choice and deer stand is climate controlled, has a 4-cylinder motor that's good on gas, and can also haul the weekly groceries. Bet you can't say the same!! :p

Scotty says Thank You for the broad heads. You're not such a bad guy after all!

Merry Christmas to you and yours!! (all of you...)

P.S. BJ, my life is absolutely wonderful and I only cry at sad movies!
 
Macky Locklin said:
Trust me on this one, there WILL be an amendment to the rules for 2009 and those that purposely shoot multiple shots into a bull to try to make it difficult for the scorer to accurately plug the target will not want to continue this practice.

This problem came to my attention prior to the ARA Nationals over Labor Day, during the regular 2008 season. I had already discussed this problem with some of the other Directors and decided to make a rule change effective for the 2009 season since we don't change rules in the middle of an ARA season. It was at the Indoor Nationals where a number of competitors took the practice to the extreme. Another case of a few causing problems for the many.

There can be only one reason for the multiple shots: to deceive. It is done to try to make the scorer's plug not fit the first legitimate bullet hole placed into that particular bull by elongating it slightly. My question is, if you're such a darned good shot so as to be able to elongate a previously misplaced hole just enough to make the plug not fit properly, why didn't you just shoot a nice clean 100 to begin with? Those that practice this, while currently legal, are not simply pushing into a gray area of the rules, they are trying to get something for nothing. It may have worked a few times, but you guys that do it cheat those that are honest enough to accept the fact that they screwed up and missed the 100 ring with their first shot on the bull.

There will still be a method by which a shooter that DOES have a legitimate malfunction and hits the target with an errant shot will not be punished any more than current rules state, but it won't be one that you guys can abuse the way you're doing now.

If you want to keep the ARA Rule Book the currently thin little pamphlet that it is, simple and concise, just abide by good judgement and honesty. Otherwise, we can make one that covers 99.9% of any possible contingencies and it will take on the bulk of a college dictionary.

Let's keep it simple, fun and honest. Earn what you shoot, demand accurate, honest and consistent scoring everywhere you go, but accept the 25 record shots you placed on the target.

Now. Lecture ended. I'll climb down off my soapbox. Have a nice Christmas! May Santa bring everyone some good scores for next year.

Macky
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Thank you Macky as a match director and a scorer this has been long over due.Now if we could get a protest period we would be great! Jerry
 
JLG. said:
Thank you Macky as a match director and a scorer this has been long over due.Now if we could get a protest period we would be great! Jerry
Click to expand...


ill agree on that one Jerry. dj
 
I'll third that, protest will have to be allowed for true and accurate scoring.
 
I would like too thank everyone who attended this match I don't think there was anyone there that didn't help or at least offer me some help. But I Just had too shoot this match because back in September there were some days i didn't think I would ever shoot again.I really felt the effects monday mourning but it was worth it..........thats what pain pills are for................

thanks again each and everyone of you

Gary shelton
 
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