AR15 Results

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Phil3

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I shot my AR15 with Lynn (aka Waterboy)today, using combinations of Harris bipod, rear Edgewood bag, and front rest. Results for 100 yard 5 shot groups are below. Ammo was PMC Bronze and BlackHills remanufactured, both 55 grain. I hoped for better results, but am learning, helped with tips Lynn gave me. VS = Vertical Stringing. No barrel cleaning.

- Bipod only, PMC. 1.59". 3 shots were .221". VS.
- Bipod only, PMC. 1.506". Mostly vertical stringing. VS.
- Bipod only, PMC. 1.367". 3 shots were .504".
- Bipod only, PMC. 1.038". 4 shots = .621". Any three of the 4 = .321". VS.

- Bipod only, BlackHills. .89". 3 shots were .50".
- Bipod only, BlackHills. .82". 3 shots were .57". 2 in same hole.

- Bipod/Rear Rest, PMC. 1.49". 3 shots were .49. 2 in same hole.
- Bipod/Rear Rest, PMC. 1.86". Disaster here. ??? VS.

- Bipod/Rear Rest, BlackHills. .93". 4 shots were .571". 3 = .386". VS.
- Bipod/Rear Rest, BlackHills. 1.27". 3 shots were .68". VS.

- Front & Rear Rest, PMC. 1.75". VS.
- Front & Rear Rest, PMC. 1.0". 2 groups of 2 holes, each = .16".

- Front & Rear Rest, BlackHills. 2.12". 3 holes at .59". VS.
- Front & Rear Rest, Blackhills. 1.60". VS.

I know these are hardly impressive in the realm of benchrest, but am learning, an asset for future bolt gun shooting. At the end, breeze kicked up, and sun was in my eyes making aiming impossible.

The AR configuration and rests did not work well together (can fix that). Per Lynn, saw results of letting a round sit in hot chamber for too long. First two shots shot same time apart touching, next shot after a hot soak in chamber was way off. Given some feeding problems (time to fix), many groups had wide variances in how long the round sat in the chamber, plus first shot was always out of a cold barrel.

I really wanted to see if my work on this AR produced an accurate gun, but too early to tell yet I think. I want substantially improved results, but I think the shooter (me) need a lot of work. The gun seemed to "hop" a lot.

- Phil
 
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I spent ages working on my AR. Now it barely looks like one. I built a bagrider stock, chopped the grip down, made a flat-bottomed handguard, plugged the gas port, etc, etc. It was a lot of fun.

With a Model 1 Sales barrel and handloads, it consistently agged .6-.7, with good groups in the upper .3s.

You'll probably see a lot of improvement with handloads. You'll have to feed them one at a time, though, because at a good OAL they won't fit in the magazine.

Just my rambling 2 cents, I just ate and I hardly ever post anything.
 
There's a lot of parts for AR and precision shooting.

Original Bob Sled for single shot feeding. Works great. http://www.dctechs.com/obspage.htm

There are adaptors for the front and rear stock for bags and pedestal rests.

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=295

Lots of drop-in barrels and triggers as well.

Highly recommend hand loading. There are tons of bullets to choose from. Some guys are getting great short range accuracy with 40gr and 1:8 twist. You never know till you try.
 
You did not say who made your rifle and what twis tthe barrel is - that would help in determining what results to expect. Also it would be good to know what scope or sights you were using.


First thing I would do to improve my target results is get a Rock River NM trigger.

Then I would get some Sierra 69 gr MatchKings and load them with 24.5 grains of H4895 to mag length (2.260") and try them. In lieu of this, get some Black Hills 69 grain or 77 grain (if barrel is 1:8 or faster) factory ammo.
 
I built the rifle. The barrel is a Krieger and is 22" long, with 1:9" twist. The barrel is heavy (.920" at muzzle) and is stainless. It is also cut to minimum SAAMI specs for a 223 Remington. It is not for 5.56 military.

The scope is a Bushnell 6 - 24 x 50 tactical scope, model 426245T, mounted in a one piece Armalite 30mm scope mount.

The trigger is a Geissele Match trigger, arguably the best two stage available. First stage is 2 lbs, and second stage is about 8 oz, as measured by a Lyman electronic trigger pull gauge. The trigger's 2nd stage can go down to 4 oz.

Once my reloading stuff is all set up (I ordered a lot of stuff on post Thanksgiving sales), I'll try different loads.

Krieger and Sierra said the 69 grain MatchKings should do OK in the 1:9" twist barrel. Shooting these in new BlackHills ammo did not impress. Good chance I am the limitation, but not sure how to tell? Someone else shoot it that is a good marksman?

- Phil
 
For handloading a 1:9, I'd try a handful of bullets.

A 40gr varmint bullet like V-Max, Nosler BT or Sierra Blitz King.

A 52/53gr match bullet. Sierra MK, Nosler CC, A-Max, etc.

A 55gr varmint bullet.

A 68/69gr match bullet. Sierra MK, Nosler CC, or Hornady BTHP.

Also, see Berger in these sizes.

If you want to shoot 300-600 yards, try the 68gr to 77gr bullets. 73gr Berger is the max their website recommends for 1:9 twist.

Get a couple of speed powders, one semi-fast rifle like H322, Benchmark or AA2230, and a slower one like Varget, R15, IMR 4895, etc.

You'll get the gamut for primers and brass. I use Fed 205 and Rem 7.5 and no complaints from either. Once-fired brass bought in 1000's should turn out hundreds of "pretty nice". Else, try Lapua, Nosler, or Norma new brass.

Once, you get your confidence up with reloading, try experimenting with OAL. Until then, stick with reloading data recommendations. I use 2.25in for magazine fed ammo. 2.26in will jam from time to time.

I use a Brownell's brass catcher. But a minnow net stuffed in a 4x4 chunk of wood does well.
 
Phil
The trigger on your gun is fantastic and I wouldn't touch it at all.In my humble opinion the gun wants to shoot but we were hampered with the loose fitting front bag and too much slope on the buttstock.
When your forend rail and buttstock rail show up in the mail I think we will see better groups.
If you can get a single shot adaptor so you don't need the magazine that should really help as well.We shot the rifle with the front rest turned 180 degrees so the magazine would clear the speedscrew.In simple terms we jury rigged the set-up and didn't give the rifle a fighting chance to shoot well.
Lynn aka Waterboy
 
Lynn, thanks for the kind words. I learned, mostly from the benchrest guys, just how important a good trigger is to shooting well, so invested for the best, the Geissele 2 stage. I prefer single stage myself, but the design of the AR does not lend itself to safe, light single stage triggers.

I agree our setup was jury rigged. That, and with the sun in our eyes, and an uncooperative mag (unreliable feeding) made it difficult to shoot well. I see there is much more opportunity for the gun to shoot better. Better bench set up, optimal ammo, me learning to shoot better are three things that can only improve the groups.

A quality rest is going to have to wait a while. I just spent a bunch on high quality reloading equipment, despite taking advantage of post Thanksgiving sales. Besides, I am also interested in how well the thing can shoot off a bipod, even if not as well as a rest.

- Phil
 
Personalities

I have not punched paper seriously with an AR for several years but the 26" Oly UltraMatch I had was accurate enough I could tell the difference of how I held it in where the POI was. It would easily do 0.5 at 100 yds with the 80gr bullets (only heavy that was out then) as long as I did my part.
So I agree, work on you hold and the bags till its consistent. Then work over some loads, the 72-77 gr seem to be commonly used today in CMP but could be heavy for your twist.
Practice is the key to all shooting IMHO. Sounds like you have some great hardware - Enjoy it!
 
Phil,
AR's are not fun to shoot from a bench. It is difficult to get good groups. Once you get into the 69 gr. and up bullet weight the twist becomes very important. I have seen guns with 1 in 9 twist barrels have problems with 69's and some are fine. No explanation, it just happens.

John
 
Phil3 said:
I shot my AR15 Results for 100 yard 5 shot groups are below. Ammo was PMC Bronze and BlackHills remanufactured, both 55 grain. I hoped for better results I want substantially improved results, but I think the shooter (me) need a lot of work.

- Phil
Click to expand...

Better loads will improve your results. Read Feamster's book. Also, I'd stick with a bipod and rear bag. Spend your time shooting instead of fussing with a benchrest.

If your fundamental marksmanship skills are the issue, then I recommend you shoot a lot of .22 rimfire as the majority of your practice. If you don't have a rifle with iron sights, I'd get one, because I'm convinced they assist in the learning process. :D
 
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