Anybody understand hydraulics?

Rob Carnell

Rob Carnell

Member
I have a friend who makes wonderful BR bullets in custom presses which have rams powered by air.

This is the current setup:

bulletpress.jpg


The problem with this, is that the cylinders are quite large, and they have mechanical links as well so they also have large strokes.

This means a lot of air is needed, and the compressor creates a lot of noise in a residential garage.

We would like to make another press, with the ram a hydraulic cylinder, with the end of the ram machined to take the punch.

The ram just needs to automatically cycle 3" or so then retract, with dwell at the top, and variable speed both ways. It would also need to be able to step in both directions when setting the dies. I guess I need some help on how I connect all this up. I have looked around on the web, but have not been able to find anything like this. Also, I don't know how large a cylinder would be required.

I have no idea what is required in the hydraulic circuit, I am guessing ram, pump, reservoir, oil filter, solenoid valve and pressure switches etc.

Would anyone be able to assist with design, or point me in the right direction for research?

Rob Carnell
Sydney, Australia
 
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I know you asked about hydraulics. I can not answer your question but, my boss put a new Kaser rotary air compressor in my shop. It makes loads of air and is very quiet. They cost ,but maybe less than a conversion of all you are talking about.
 
Hydraulic Design

I can help with all you need. Will have a few questions for load requirements. Am very familiar building presses with hydraulics all of my progressives are ran hydraulically now. Your basic needs will be a pump with flow and pressure set for your application, motor to turn pump, cooler, filter, reservoir, valve body, valve body controller, cylinder, hoses, and necessary switches. Send me a message anytime we can set up a schematic and BOM for you.

Dale
 
You might also look at a hybrid pneumohydraulic cylinder. Where I work we use some made by TOX. This uses a smaller diameter air cylinder, with a self contained hydraulic "power stroke" for the last 1/4" or so. The air system does all the rapid traverse, with the hydraulic booster only kicking in for the last bump. This would utilize your existing air system, with a lower air usage.

http://www.tox-us.com/us/products/press-drives/pneumohydraulic-drives.html
 
gday Rob

Vibe said:
You might also look at a hybrid pneumohydraulic cylinder. Where I work we use some made by TOX. This uses a smaller diameter air cylinder, with a self contained hydraulic "power stroke" for the last 1/4" or so. The air system does all the rapid traverse, with the hydraulic booster only kicking in for the last bump. This would utilize your existing air system, with a lower air usage.

http://www.tox-us.com/us/products/press-drives/pneumohydraulic-drives.html
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What air pressure are you running on.The far cylinder looks like a hydralic anyway and you may be able to fit oil seals to the cylinders.are they spring return on air operated in and out?if you go hydraulic i would leave all the mechanical levers as alignment of the cylinders and punches would become a drama?im thinking.is it a bullet maker i know i cangive him a ring?
 
Thanks Jim

j mckinnie said:
What air pressure are you running on.The far cylinder looks like a hydralic anyway and you may be able to fit oil seals to the cylinders.are they spring return on air operated in and out?if you go hydraulic i would leave all the mechanical levers as alignment of the cylinders and punches would become a drama?im thinking.is it a bullet maker i know i can give him a ring?
Click to expand...

He is away until Friday, give Barry a call.

Runs about 60 PSI, cylinders are double acting, no springs. Cylinders have about a 12 inch stroke, 20 cycles per minute, so use a lot of air.

Rob.
 
j mckinnie said:
What air pressure are you running on.The far cylinder looks like a hydralic anyway and you may be able to fit oil seals to the cylinders.are they spring return on air operated in and out?if you go hydraulic i would leave all the mechanical levers as alignment of the cylinders and punches would become a drama?im thinking.is it a bullet maker i know i cangive him a ring?
Click to expand...

It looks like you hit reply to my post, but intended it for Rob. We run these about 60 to 80psi without lever linkages, so direct acting, which works for shorter strokes in a stamping/punch press application.
 
Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to attack the noise with a sound proof enclosure around the compressor, rather than re-design the whole system?
 
I tried hydraulics to core seat several years ago. I used a 2 inch diameter cylinder hooked inline to the ram on a rock chucker press. I used a pump that was salvaged from a "Tommy Lift" tailgate. I ran it with a small electric motor. It provided about 2000 psi, and had it's own small oil reserve. These systems run on perhaps a 1/2 gallon capacity, plus what's in the cylinder and lines. I had no trouble with it getting hot. I used an electric over hyd. spool valve to control everything.

JIm
 
There is another issue

Dick Grosbier said:
Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to attack the noise with a sound proof enclosure around the compressor, rather than re-design the whole system?
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that the current system needs a huge air receiver so the compressor does not run constantly. This takes up a lot of space in the workshop, and the idea is to get rid of this.

Rob.
 
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