Any interest in 600yd BR in central Washington state?

M

milanuk

New member
We've got some new blood on our board of directors, and I think there is some local interest from our varmint/tactical & F-class shooters, as well as maybe some of the BR crowd from the club across the river (300yd score matches only there).

What we have is a 600yd range with paved firing line about 50' long, and target pits with carriers, NRA regulation 6'x6' target frames, a few places for wind flags (the topography really limits the placing of flags between the firing line and the targets)... and one big herkin' wood bench off to one side of the firing line. Any benches would have to be portable enough to at least roll back out of the way for conventional High Power matches.

What should we do for the next step?

(feel free to PM or email me if you like)
 
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600yd in Wash.

I would think it would be well attended.
You will need good benches.
The loss of the 600yd range at Eatonville, Wa. has put a crimp in 600yd shooting.
We shoot three matches a year in Portland that is all that is left in the NW.
If you do sanctioned matches there will be, best guess, 15 t0 20 shooters from the west side show up.
Good luck in getting it started.
 
Email sent,

A number of North Idaho shooters would sure be interested in 600 at Wenatchee.

Jay
 
Thanks for the info, guys. If I might ask some more 'newbie' questions...

How many benches would be considered a minimum? Five would probably be doable, 10 would be really straining both the available space and budget. Is that enough? I know how we run relays for HP/F-Class, no idea how it works in BR. I'll be digging around on the 'Net for some reading material at the various organization's sites, but if someone could humor me and give me a nickel tour version of the process, I'd appreciate it.

I'm a-thinkin' I probably need to get myself and a few others over to a match or two @ Portland or UNSC this spring/summer.

Thanks,

Monte
 
benches

12 benches 32" wide ,18" gap between benches set up on steel frames . See if a local concrete supply, Premix or other company would let you set some bench forms at there concrete plant and have them dump any left overs into the forms. That would cut down on cost. But you should have a fork truck or front loader handy when you try to move them. Three inch to four thick slab is HEAVY. Ask them HBR shooters about the Lewiston range and their bench setup. They had steel wheels on the front end and lifted the back up with a hand truck to move them around. RANDY
 
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Well... the club has a small tractor (33hp 4wd orchard tractor w/ front end loader) that might be of some help as far as moving things about, if it comes to that.

Is 12 really a minimum? Granted the spacing is a lot closer than I would have imagined (which should make things a bit easier), but how shall I say... I have no intention of turning this into a benchrest *only* firing line - it has to coexist with the existing High Power / F-Class / Casual (varmint/tactical) shooters who also use the same limited amount of space.

Thanks,

Monte
 
32" wide benches plus 18" between benches puts muzzles about 4' apart. That is too close to each other, in my opinion.
Since you are proposing portable benches, I'd suggest going with 8 or 10 benches to start. The benches need to be as heavy as reasonably possible and if placed on sand or gravel that is a plus, if concrete is not available. It is important to be able to level the table, somewhat, up or down can cause bags to be too high or low.

Jay, Idaho
 
Monte

How many target frames do you have? The 600 guys, for the most part, shoot small calibers so spacing isn't that critical. If you could manage 7-8 benches you could handle a pretty good crowd. 50' firing line will give you over 6' spacing with 7 benches.
Here's some advice from someone who has run matches for a long time. Do only what you can handle and do well. It's supposed to be fun. There will be a time for growth if all goes well.

Dave
 
Monte , A number of the current long range Br shooters West of the Cascades would certainly be interested in your efforts. A few of years ago I did some research on portable concrete benches. Rich DeSimone a fellow Br shooter had plans for a portable concrete bench. Try contacting him re: plans.
 
Keep it coming, guys. We're listening at this end ;)

As for what we have now... I asked someone here who would know the firing line dimensions... ~12-1/2' deep by ~64-1/2' long. Technically... we have 15 targets in the pits on roughly a 8' spacing; almost all would need some work (they need it anyway and will be getting it in the next few months) to really run right. The firing line is a bit crowded for 15 targets worth of firing points by HP standards - I think the firing line got 'shrunk' by a road during some years when the HP program was nearly non-existent and nobody was around to stop it. We shoot *over* a race track on the same property, so there are some interference problems with the track lights on the other (left) end. There is probably room for another 8-10' or so at that end, currently occupied by a gargantuan 4'x4' horse-shoe style bench (the only one we currently have on that firing line).

I have some pictures of what we have now in a small gallery located here.

(most of the pics are of our previous gravel firing line, but show the general area)

Here is a Google Maps view of the site... the 600yd firing line is between the trap fields on the left and the (abandoned) skeet field on the left. The 600yd pits are nestled into the hillside just below that big open field ;)

Dave, I think you might be on to something there... once we get comfortable and have a few bodies (i.e. more than one) involved locally, have a match or two... then see what we would need to do to expand. Up to that point, though... do smaller BR ranges tend to put a cap on the match attendance to keep from running too many relays and too late in the day? I don't mean to get ahead of things but I don't want to have matches to drag out forever and have nobody come back.

Thanks,

Monte
 
milanuk said:
Keep it coming, guys. We're listening at this end ;)

As for what we have now... I asked someone here who would know the firing line dimensions... ~12-1/2' deep by ~64-1/2' long. Technically... we have 15 targets in the pits on roughly a 8' spacing; almost all would need some work (they need it anyway and will be getting it in the next few months) to really run right. The firing line is a bit crowded for 15 targets worth of firing points by HP standards - I think the firing line got 'shrunk' by a road during some years when the HP program was nearly non-existent and nobody was around to stop it. We shoot *over* a race track on the same property, so there are some interference problems with the track lights on the other (left) end. There is probably room for another 8-10' or so at that end, currently occupied by a gargantuan 4'x4' horse-shoe style bench (the only one we currently have on that firing line).

I have some pictures of what we have now in a small gallery located here.

(most of the pics are of our previous gravel firing line, but show the general area)

Here is a Google Maps view of the site... the 600yd firing line is between the trap fields on the left and the (abandoned) skeet field on the left. The 600yd pits are nestled into the hillside just below that big open field ;)

Dave, I think you might be on to something there... once we get comfortable and have a few bodies (i.e. more than one) involved locally, have a match or two... then see what we would need to do to expand. Up to that point, though... do smaller BR ranges tend to put a cap on the match attendance to keep from running too many relays and too late in the day? I don't mean to get ahead of things but I don't want to have matches to drag out forever and have nobody come back.

Thanks,

Monte
Click to expand...

Monte, good luck with your plans! the pictures looks like you are off to a great start. Anything you start with can be improved on, so again, good luck and I hope your matches prosper. Ron Tilley
 
Milanuk

Monte
At the sacramento club we shoot off of portable benches.They are made of square steel tubing and concrete and weigh 400-500 pounds each.We move them with a quad runner with a trailer hitch and a car axle and a long runner.
Gary Noble,Carl Hansen and Ron Tilley have all shot off of them and we have hosted all of the NBRSA 600 Yard Nationals using them.
We also host March Madness for the F-Class guys on the same range so not only can it work it does work.
If you need any pictures or dimensions just let me know and you will get them.
Our bench hauler utilizes car tires so the terrain doesn't need to be perfect just decent.
Lynn
 
Monte

Suggestion You've got 15 frames and room for 7 benches. Use two frames per bench. Shooters shoot two targets at one sitting. One on one frame for one relay,then one on the other frame for another. Then you can have pit change or go into heavy gun and shoot two targtes again. You can shoot the whole match (28 shooters) with only 3 pit changes. If you have 5 relays you can still run it the same way. 3&2 It goes faster than you think. If you're good at barking orders you can get done by 2:00PM with 9:00 AM start.
After typing this the shooters won't want go that fast, use every other frame and change the target after each relay. Hang two targets pre frame. Left side sighter right side record. Mark the targets well because there will be people that will fire there last spotter round and then fire there whole group on a target that has spotter plug in the middle of it.

After the match we can all go do the Richard Petty experience over at the track.

Dave
 
milanuk said:
Well... the club has a small tractor (33hp 4wd orchard tractor w/ front end loader) that might be of some help as far as moving things about, if it comes to that.

Is 12 really a minimum? Granted the spacing is a lot closer than I would have imagined (which should make things a bit easier), but how shall I say... I have no intention of turning this into a benchrest *only* firing line - it has to coexist with the existing High Power / F-Class / Casual (varmint/tactical) shooters who also use the same limited amount of space.

Thanks,

Monte
Click to expand...

The old San Gabriel range had fixed benches with a gravel area that extended
roughly seven feet in front of the benches for their hi-power and other prone matches, worked out pretty good.
Gary.
 
Gary L Noble said:
...The loss of the 600yd range at Eatonville, Wa. has put a crimp in 600yd shooting...
Click to expand...
When did Eatonville lose the 600yd range? I know that they lost the 1000yd range a couple of years ago.
 
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Steve, the 600 yd range still exists but it is used for club matches at this time. These matches are held on the third Sunday of the month. They are ideal Practice and for load testing. the match Director is Johnny Higgins Tel: 253 445 9625 e mail joh427@gmail.com.
 
600yd in Wash.

Carl
Thanks for setting it straight in Eatonville. Upper Nisqually range.
As for me it is lost. There are no sanctioned matches. It has always been a pleasure to shoot there. And is missed by many.
 
IBS vs. NBRSA?

Hello guys, a few more basic questions here: IBS or NBRSA?

I'm going through the 600yd sections of the rule books for both organizations trying to pick out the pluses and minuses of one vs. the other... I'm not trying to start a flame war between advocates of one vs. the other, just trying to understand the practical differences between the two. Below is what stands out to me as the key points - please correct/add as needed:

Both use six minutes for sighters, then 10 minutes for shooting the record target (plus some wording for how long is allowed between the sighter period and the start of the record time).

IBS shoots five shots for both LG & HG, and shoots a four-target agg.

NBRSA shoots five for LG, 10 for HG, and a six-target agg.

IBS allows muzzle brakes for LG, but not HG.

NBRSA rules allow muzzle brakes for both LG & HG.

I see in the IBS rules what Dave was talking about before, with the verbage for running sighters, shoot a target, then shoot another target immediately afterwards to minimize pit changes, etc. So far I'm not seeing anything similar in the NBRSA rules - am I missing it somewhere?

If you were starting from scratch, which would you choose (IBS or NBRSA) and why? Again, if someone doesn't want to risk starting a feud on here, you can let me know via PM or email.

How do you handle the scores when someone has a membership in the alternate organization? I see both rule books talk about having to be a member to play, but I've also talked to some people (Hunter BR types) that indicated that such strict adherence to that particular rule tended to discourage people from coming back.

Due to scheduling constraints, we'd only be able to hold one day matches on Sunday (the race track has to run sometime, and the whole range gets shut down Saturdays from noon til close of business, from the end of April to the end of September). I know some people don't like traveling several hours for one-day events in HP/F-Class... is that likely to be a problem here, given there seem to be far fewer options for ranges to shoot at?

Lastly... I see IBS targets for sale at various online stores where I buy my NRA-sanctioned High Power Rifle targets... but I haven't seen any NBRSA 600/1k targets. Where would a person wanting to practice purchase them at?

Thanks,

Monte
 
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Milanuk

Monte
The targets can be purchase from Karl Hunstiger who posts on this forum.In the NBRSA we shoot 1 target for sighters marking each shot.When the sighter period is over we staple a brand new target over the sighter target and shoot our record target.Our record target doesn't have any stray shots on it that need fixing.
I personaly like to shoot as much as possible so I would go with the organization that allows the most rounds downrange.
On the other hand heavygun barrels cost more than lightgun barrels so maybe that is why the IBS went with 5 shots in heavygun class?
In NBRSA the format is unchanged from 600 to 1,000 yards.
I think in the NBRSA you have to be a member to submit a record group?
Maybe Lou Murdica or Don Nielson will read this and respond.
Lynn
 
Monte ,I think that affiliating with the IBS has definate advantages for your situation. 1.) The IBS allows NBRSA members to shoot in IBS 600 yd Matches. That is not the case with the NBRSA allowing IBS members to shoot their sanctioned matches. 2.) With your large target frames you could post (2) record targets and a sighter target on the same frame. This would allow you to only make 0ne target change per (4) record targets. The NBRSA requires that only (1) target be posted at a time. 3.) You would not have any match date conflicts as your range would be the only IBS 600yd Range WEST of the VHA in S.Dakota. I do not mean to denigrate the NBRSA it is just that your Range has has special physical conditions which should be considered. Carl
 
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