Another question

mturner

Member
In your opinion, what does the following term mean from the NBRSA rule book.

"The rear bag shall not be contained in any matter."

This is part of the rules for short range BR on page 16.

Another thing. The rear bag cannot be constructed of any metallic materials, but can't the vertical spacer be made of metal? I don't see that it can't be.

Michael
 
For a couple of decades, Benchrest has had it's own verson of "Don't ask, don't tell" (really, don't look too hard). I'd bet serious money that over 50% of the bags, esp. front, don't adhere to the rules as written.

Charitably, we go back to "what was the framers intent?" And of course, that was no return to battery, you have to aim each shot. What they made as rules to insure that turned out to be, perhaps, excessive.

As an aside, anybody who has shot a 1K Heavy Gun knows that if it's sandbags, you have to check (1K bag rules allow dual pedestal rests, with no weight limit on the rifle). The rifle *may* return to battery 75-80 percent of the time. But it's no good if 25% of your shots go astray, so you have to check and adjust.

So it gets down to "having to aim EACH shot" -- how to knock out that 75% RTB. If we could come up with a set of rules to insure that, we could rewrite the rules in a coherent manner. But we can't, so we're left with a hodge-podge set of rules that most people don't follow, and a general understanding that the RO won't question certain things.

As I see it, much of the "progress" in rest/bag design over the pas 20 years is an attempt to minimize the need to adjust rests -- aiming -- for bag guns. It's a never-ending battle, and I, for one, can't blame the NBRSA board for not changing the rules. To what? And to what end? Insuring the need to check point of aim, or insuring the need to adjust?

In the end, your question becomes "what will the RO and other competitors not protest?"
 
Last edited:
I remember discussing this years ago when the Otto/Dunrud donut debate was on. I think the wording existed before the general use of spacers but at that time I took "containing the bag" to mean you couldn't box the bag in around the sides in any way or if using a spacer no vertical lip surrounding the bag could be used. In short the bag could be set upon a spacer but nothing to limit horizontal movement off the spacer was allowed. I wouldn't have a problem with a metal spacer but I think the wording is still a little vague and open to interpretation.
 
W Snyder

Would you say that the donuts used today do some sort of containing? Do they come up around the bottom edge of the bag? I made a vertical spacer that does have a lip around the edge to keep the bag from moving around. I left it to where the bag can be lifted from the spacer. Would this be considered legal or illegal as compared to the use of the donut.

Michael
 
The Otto ring gets a pass because it is a sandbag, and you can pile up as many sandbags as you like. The Dunrud's approval was specific, not generic. There is also a allowance that the bottom 1" of the bag does not have to be able to be deflected. This covers the Edgewoods and later copies, with their built in leather ring bases. It also says that metal cannot be used to construct the bag. So it seems to me that if you permanently attach a spacer, that contains no metal, either in itself or its method of attachment, to the bottom of your bag, you might be legal, as long as the total height of the non delectable portion of the bag is no more than 1" high. Of course this is just my reading of the rules.
 
I made a bag of sorts, by welding some pieces of steel blocks together. Where the gun contacted it was an aluminum V block, tilted somewhat aft. The block had a thin piece of leather
glued to protect the gun. Weighing in at nearly 15 lbs, I thought It would stand still. Not so, it was a real eye opener, as I was moving it with chest pressure.
This was not a total loss, because when I learned to stay away from the rear
bag completely, it pointed out problems with my front bag and rest
 
Last edited:
W Snyder

Would you say that the donuts used today do some sort of containing? Do they come up around the bottom edge of the bag? I made a vertical spacer that does have a lip around the edge to keep the bag from moving around. I left it to where the bag can be lifted from the spacer. Would this be considered legal or illegal as compared to the use of the donut.

Michael

The Otto and Dunrud spacers (the originals are what I am familiar with) were made to the almost exact size of the bag bases they were intended to support and neither supported any part of the bag sides so I would say they do not contain the bag. They contacted the base of the bag only. If yours has a lip that comes up the sides at all and you used it at a match I wouldn't be surprised if someone protested you on it's use. I would call that containing the bag, but that's my opinion and my recollection of others opinions when this first came up years ago.
 
Mine does not come up around the sand filled bag itself, but does come up around the hard base of the bag that is multiple layers of leather. So it has to be asked. What is really being said in the rules? It would be legal for me to glue a hard base to the bag, as long as it isn't metal or more than 1" of hard material at the bottom. The overall effect would be the same. After this match, my rear bag will be glued to a solid piece of granite with rubber feet on the bottom. Just should have done this to begin with.

Michael
 
Back
Top