M
Marine sniper
Guest
On my 300 Weatherby, how often should I anneal the cases, and how far back past the neck should the heat mark be ?
Thanks,
John
Thanks,
John
J
JeffVN
Guest
I'm not sure how to answer the "how often" question.
Some folks anneal brass after every firing, others only when teh necks have become noticably work hardened and the neck tenstion is suffering pretty badly. I anneal my 7WSM brass every 2 or 3 firings; some 7WSM shooters anneal every firing.
How far down - you want the color change on the brass to extend to a bit below the shoulder body junction. Her is a good example with New Lapua 6.5x284 and 338LM brass. Since I USE the KEN LIGHT BC-1000 and PROPANE to anneal my cases, they tend to look a bit like this - NOT EXACTLY - but pretty close.
JeffVN
Some folks anneal brass after every firing, others only when teh necks have become noticably work hardened and the neck tenstion is suffering pretty badly. I anneal my 7WSM brass every 2 or 3 firings; some 7WSM shooters anneal every firing.
How far down - you want the color change on the brass to extend to a bit below the shoulder body junction. Her is a good example with New Lapua 6.5x284 and 338LM brass. Since I USE the KEN LIGHT BC-1000 and PROPANE to anneal my cases, they tend to look a bit like this - NOT EXACTLY - but pretty close.
JeffVN
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M
Marine sniper
Guest
Thanks Jeff.
S
Steve Shelp
Guest
All,
It's not a good idea to use the those particualr color rings on the case as indications of annealling. Those color rings you see on Lapua cases (and any other case that use propane as the heat source) is simply a by-product of using propane gas as your heat source. It is not an indication that the case reached a particular temperature or not.
If you use the molten lead dipping method of annealing you will not see those colored rings that are pictured but your case neck will be annealed if done properly.
Don't confuse these color rings with the brass actually changing color while heating. We are talking about 2 different things. I'm colored blind so I can't tell you what to look for or what not to look for while actually heating the case neck. I never seen a color change myself.
And another alternative..... is to not anneal at all. I haven't annealed a case now in the last 5 or so years. I'm not convinced it's all its cracked up to be. I've heard it many times that when your neck tensions starting getting erratic from one case to another that anealing helps. I do agree that it does help. But I beelive it's a crutch for another issue. But right now I'm of the belief that the erratic neck tension came from not turning your neck uniformly to begin with. I can't prove this. It's been something I've been keeping records on for awhile. No scientific proof as of yet. Just my thoughts.
Steve
It's not a good idea to use the those particualr color rings on the case as indications of annealling. Those color rings you see on Lapua cases (and any other case that use propane as the heat source) is simply a by-product of using propane gas as your heat source. It is not an indication that the case reached a particular temperature or not.
If you use the molten lead dipping method of annealing you will not see those colored rings that are pictured but your case neck will be annealed if done properly.
Don't confuse these color rings with the brass actually changing color while heating. We are talking about 2 different things. I'm colored blind so I can't tell you what to look for or what not to look for while actually heating the case neck. I never seen a color change myself.
And another alternative..... is to not anneal at all. I haven't annealed a case now in the last 5 or so years. I'm not convinced it's all its cracked up to be. I've heard it many times that when your neck tensions starting getting erratic from one case to another that anealing helps. I do agree that it does help. But I beelive it's a crutch for another issue. But right now I'm of the belief that the erratic neck tension came from not turning your neck uniformly to begin with. I can't prove this. It's been something I've been keeping records on for awhile. No scientific proof as of yet. Just my thoughts.
Steve
Read my post in the thread below. I am a recent convert to annealing. I also use the molten lead/water quench method. My brass does come out with some color on the neck and shoulder. Not exactly like the Lapua factory anneal but a little blueish. I dip the case so that the shoulder is just under the surface of the lead [ 30BR and PPC cases ].
For long range shooting where consistent reloads is so critical I would think annealing would be more important.
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58115
For long range shooting where consistent reloads is so critical I would think annealing would be more important.
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58115
brian roberts
New member
I've got nothing against.........
annealing, and many people believe that when the necks begin to crack, its time to anneal. But its not.......not necessarily. For controlling neck tension, annealing is something to look for when dealing w/extreme shooting, but whatever the consideration, there is one other step you may or may not wish to use. Many of the splits seen in the necks are caused by stress corrosion cracking as a result of the combustion process, which creates ammonia during the combustion
. Some people only use a small number of cases before they are tossed, but some others prefer to see how many loadings they can safely make before having to toss the cases. If you use a few teaspoons of powdered ascorbic acid in the tumbler, then brush the inside of the case prior to sizing, this will cancel out the corrosive action; Neck splits usually go in a fairly straight line, but you can check for stress cracking by checking hunting rounds that haven't been used for awhile, & the gun's been idle for some time. These cracks will sometimes start at the mouth, & as it heads for the shoulder, it frequently detours & goes around the neck in an almost horizontal, but somewhat meandering direction.Once the cracking begins, one's first thought is, "Hey! I need to anneal!!!" Annealing will not stop this. I spoke w/an older shooter in Tennessee who gave me a formula for a dip I want to try, & I'll post it here when I find it again. It seems to have slipped into a time warp lurking in my piling system.
annealing, and many people believe that when the necks begin to crack, its time to anneal. But its not.......not necessarily. For controlling neck tension, annealing is something to look for when dealing w/extreme shooting, but whatever the consideration, there is one other step you may or may not wish to use. Many of the splits seen in the necks are caused by stress corrosion cracking as a result of the combustion process, which creates ammonia during the combustion
. Some people only use a small number of cases before they are tossed, but some others prefer to see how many loadings they can safely make before having to toss the cases. If you use a few teaspoons of powdered ascorbic acid in the tumbler, then brush the inside of the case prior to sizing, this will cancel out the corrosive action; Neck splits usually go in a fairly straight line, but you can check for stress cracking by checking hunting rounds that haven't been used for awhile, & the gun's been idle for some time. These cracks will sometimes start at the mouth, & as it heads for the shoulder, it frequently detours & goes around the neck in an almost horizontal, but somewhat meandering direction.Once the cracking begins, one's first thought is, "Hey! I need to anneal!!!" Annealing will not stop this. I spoke w/an older shooter in Tennessee who gave me a formula for a dip I want to try, & I'll post it here when I find it again. It seems to have slipped into a time warp lurking in my piling system.With the 30BR there are many tales of people using one set of brass for many thousands of firings so I don't know where your split neck analogy is coming from. I think maybe you are thinking of a SAAMI chamber with lots of neck clearance.
I started doing it strictly because the seating pressure and seating depth consistency was becoming a major pitn. I felt like I needed to chamfer the case mouth before every loading. I also had a note in the book to try a bigger bushing.
I quench in water although I have been told it's unnecessary. I want to stop the heat NOW.
I started doing it strictly because the seating pressure and seating depth consistency was becoming a major pitn. I felt like I needed to chamfer the case mouth before every loading. I also had a note in the book to try a bigger bushing.
I quench in water although I have been told it's unnecessary. I want to stop the heat NOW.
F
Fireball Fred
Guest
I recall
Upon meeting Earl Chronister (A record holder at Williamsport 1000yd range) he told me his secret to consistant rounds was annealing case necks.
for those of us that cant justify the cost of an annealing machine. use the hand held propane torch method and snapping over in a cookie sheet of water. yes this method takes longer as one has to dry the interior of the cases. dump out the water, wipe off outside moisture and place on dry cookie sheet and bake in oven at 180 degrees for 30 minutes. this temperature is low enough that brass will not change properties in the solid state. yes of course this is with empty, unprimed brass.
then if you have to spend money hornady makes annealing kits with the proper tempilaq included.
the real issue is to anneal the neck and not shoulder, body or head of case. this is the reason for quenching to eliminate heat migration.
for the lead dipping method, well that practice has alot to be desired because of health issues. years ago i used to mold 44cal bullets and my own river fishing sinkers. i always worked with a fan blowing the fumes away from myself. still one should wear cloth gloves to keep from ingesting heavy metals. once these enter the blood stream they can not be removed! a word to the wise is sufficeint. Fred
Upon meeting Earl Chronister (A record holder at Williamsport 1000yd range) he told me his secret to consistant rounds was annealing case necks.
for those of us that cant justify the cost of an annealing machine. use the hand held propane torch method and snapping over in a cookie sheet of water. yes this method takes longer as one has to dry the interior of the cases. dump out the water, wipe off outside moisture and place on dry cookie sheet and bake in oven at 180 degrees for 30 minutes. this temperature is low enough that brass will not change properties in the solid state. yes of course this is with empty, unprimed brass.
then if you have to spend money hornady makes annealing kits with the proper tempilaq included.
the real issue is to anneal the neck and not shoulder, body or head of case. this is the reason for quenching to eliminate heat migration.
for the lead dipping method, well that practice has alot to be desired because of health issues. years ago i used to mold 44cal bullets and my own river fishing sinkers. i always worked with a fan blowing the fumes away from myself. still one should wear cloth gloves to keep from ingesting heavy metals. once these enter the blood stream they can not be removed! a word to the wise is sufficeint. Fred
Lead Dip Method
Would this be correct?
Lead pot operation outdoors.
Lead heat at 650 degrees.
Dip BR cases up to the neck shoulder junction.
Hold in 650 degree lead for 4-5 seconds.
Drop case in water.
The brass is 6 BR Lapua necked up to 7mm.
Questions:
Can I do this with bare fingers? Or do I need some sort of gizmo to hold the case?
These 10 time fired cases are or have been turned for a tight neck chamber; so are there any issue with that?
Thanks!
Would this be correct?
Lead pot operation outdoors.
Lead heat at 650 degrees.
Dip BR cases up to the neck shoulder junction.
Hold in 650 degree lead for 4-5 seconds.
Drop case in water.
The brass is 6 BR Lapua necked up to 7mm.
Questions:
Can I do this with bare fingers? Or do I need some sort of gizmo to hold the case?
These 10 time fired cases are or have been turned for a tight neck chamber; so are there any issue with that?
Thanks!
Rich De
Member
I have been annealing my 6.5 x .284 imp. cases every firing for the past five six years now. I use a small fixture which spins at a low rpm (between 50 to 100). I hold the propane torch just on the neck until it turns a dull maroon. Pick it off the turning fixture and drop it in CLR (calcium, lime and rust solution) to quench. Can do fifty cases in about ten minutes. Leave the cases soke for an hour or so, rinse (re-use the CLR) and brush out the inside of the necks with a nylon brush. Doing this proceedure every time has given me very consistent neck tension. Works for me.
Rich De
Rich De
D
Dog's Elvis
Guest
What Rich De said. But dull maroon in a DARK room.
D
dantiff2
Guest
Watch case annealing on you tube ! If those idiots are still alive, you cant screw it up !!! haha
Dan
Dan
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
The only time I see annealing as being necessary is if you're case forming a wildcat that simply cannot be formed any other way or if you are using old, brittle brass that can't be fired without cracking. But then again, I use new brass and closely matched dies with bushings so I don't run into the problems in the first place.
If you have bullet grip issues, then something isn't right somewhere in the process and you are just treating the symptoms rather than finding the cure by annealing.
If you have bullet grip issues, then something isn't right somewhere in the process and you are just treating the symptoms rather than finding the cure by annealing.