Ammo, Calfee

K

Kathy

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Ammo, Calfee

My friends: This week-end, Mark Meadows won the Missouri State, ARA championship, using some last years, cheap, black box, Eley, culls..

My friend Kirk Gaston, did right well at the big money match at Kettlefoot, also using some of the cheap, black box Eley...

My question is this: Did any of you folks use, at either match, some of that killer expensive, Lapua? If so, how did it perform?

My friends, we need competition in the ammo market......to keep the price down, and, to make killer ammo...

If any of you folks shot the new, expensive Lapua, how did it work out...especially since the cheap black box Eley won so muxh?

My Lapua friends, I hope your ammo is killer....we need competition...

Now, how did the new ammo stack up against the cheap, black box Eley?

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Additional, Calfee

Additional:

My dear Lapua friends: I hope and pray that the new, expensive, Lapua, is truly competitive.......we must have competition, or, none of us will be able to afford to shoot...


Now, no B--l Sh--t.....did anyone shoot the new expensive Lapua this week-end? does it work?

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Friend Bill
Although you would not call and price Spec 5 to me, I will answer your question on this subject. I am sure you would prefer to hear from one of the hot shoes, but there has to be some of us to fill the lower slots on the roster. I used my old Suhl with a second hand Hart barrel and shot two targets with Eley black box and two targets with X Act lapua on Saturday. I shot a 246 on all four targets with a slight edge to Lapua on X count.
To put it in perspective, I borrowed one of your rifles with a proven track record for the first two targets on Sunday. Shot the owners proven black box Eley first and got a 247-14X Then used my black box Eley of same velocity and shot 242-9X. The conditions changed dramatically between first target and second so don't know that I proved anything.
The last two targets of the day in steadily worsening wind I used the old Suhl and Lapua X-act again. This time I listened to Charlie Scott and turned my tuner in one full revolution. I left before those targets were posted but believe they were both 247's with 10 to 14 X count based on looking thru my scope.
I readily acknowledge this proved absolutely nothing except for my poor wind reading and shooting skills.
You are welcome to factor this info with other feedback you will recieve
Don Stith
 
Bill,

At World Championships Lapua will have there flash new ammo there and Eley will have selected lots they are taking to the Olympics available. I’ll let you know.

But my Hall/Broughton has been shooting very high scores with RWS so that’s not bad either.

Peter
 
I have trouble considering Black Box cheap ammo.
Cheap ammo comes in bulk containers and is sold at discount stores.
 
It wasn't for score, but my rifle was shooting 5 round groups (CTC) at 50 yards around 1/4" with the lowest being a .21" group with Wolf MT and that brick of 500 cost me around $35. Not bad for less expensive ammuntion.
 
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A couple of thoughts . . .

I hear that Anschutz is selling tons of rifles . . . to China.

That thought lead me to another thought: The top smallbore shooters from "all over the world" are getting ready for the Olympics in China. They will be shooting in the 120 shot three position match: (prone, kneeling, standing) and the English Match: (60 shots prone).

Think of it: The best men and women in International rimfire, from all over the world, will be lusting after Gold, Silver and Bronze medals later this year.

So, why the h-ll not shoot the best ammunition available? The most expensive MUST be the best, right? And: In most of those countries, the government will be paying for the ammunition. I am sure most of these international shooters will be testing and comparing Eley against Lapua and RWS. If the Lapua accuracy is as high as it's price, the Finns cash in on the magic cash cow provided by the Olympics.

Will the new Lapua produce wonderful new Olympic records? And when it is over: Will the price come down? Will the accuracy levels be the same at the lower price? Will WE be interested in trying it then? If it really is great ammunition and the price does not come down, will a few of us be willing to pay the high price: Will it kill our game? Will a bunch of us be switching to compressed air and pellets?

A third thought here:

My guess is that the new Lapua has been tuned for shooting with a sling. Do any of you remember the lesson Winchester learned at Camp Perry back in . . . Ah: 1947? Or was it '48? Their MK III was tested and tuned in a machine rest. They figured they had a hot produce. The prone competitors at Perry found that it shot bad from a sling. Seems that testing and tuning in a machine rest didn't work for shooting with a sling. Then, they build Osker. Anyone remember Osker? Osker helped the engineers tune with a sling.

Guess we will have to wait and see the outcome. And: This ain't no b-ll Sh--t, Bill. Just me, thinking out loud. And Bill: You ain't old. When you were on that high school rifle time, I was coaching a high school rifle team. I'M old.

Joe Haller (Mr. Frosty)
 
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Bill,
I know of 1-250 shot with Eley Team ammo!! The lot number was 5040 at 1055. I shot a 248-15 in sporter several weeks back with it......I can tell everyone now because it's all gone. Some might say it must have sold out quickly, but I know it was on Zander's inventory for a month or so!! Kind of blows the theory that the sells get all of the good stuff!!
 
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I shot some a few weeks ago

The unlimited at Kettlefoot...no flags for 3 benches either side....LApua X-Act. Won 2 targets and the 3 gun. Next day at Wilderness I shot two targets with Lapua X and the last target with Eley - not enough difference to say.
 
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My friends

My friends:

There were two very important matches this weekend, St. Louis and Kettlefoot...I say very important because the bulk of the "cream of the crop" of rimfire benchresters were in attendance.....

Now, I asked a very simple question: Did anyone, at either match, shoot the new expensive Lapua, and, how did they do?

Friend Wilbur gave a good answer....thank you my firend....Peter said he'd let me know after the World......thank you....

Now, did anyone, at either of the two mentioned matches, shoot the new expensive Lapua,,,,,,,and,,,,,,how did they do? Sounds like a simple question to me.....not trying to sell anything......

Friend Joe Haller:

I shot on my High School team for two years....played basketball my senior year and the two sports overlapped so I couldn't do both....I didn't want to play ball but I was real tall and I was forced to do it.....dang it, I'd loved to have competed my senior year on the rifle team......

New Albany High School, my senior year, was No 1 in the Nation in Non Military Schools......we had a gentleman named Bob Booker who fired a 4 position 392........I tell you this because you will fully understand his accomplishment.......

Joe, I wasn't no shooter, last man on the 2nd team, as it turned out wasn't no ball player either,.....I spent all my time looking and playing with the rifles,,,,,got called on it a few time by the coach to leave them alone......Mostly 52 Winchesters, which I fell in love with....one reason I use Turbos in my work today's because the Turbo is just a modern 52 Winchester....

My coach was Harley (Doc) Francis.....did you ever hear of him? Man, he could coach...at least everyone but me.........

Joe, them was good days.......got to tell you one other thing....The school had a rifle club, which Doc was head of....once a year there was a "bring your gun to school day".....all the rifle club folks would be allowed to bring a gun to school...then when the club started, everyone would get their guns out of their lockers and walk over to the Mechanical Arts building for the club meeitng, and show their guns......My daddy would allow no guns in our home so I didn't have a gun to show..

Can you imagine having a bring you gun to shcool day, today?

Friend Joe, I'm glad the best of my days are over....the old world ain't the same place me and you knew as kids........I rambled too much...sorry..

Now, did anyone shoot the new expensive Lapua?

Your friend, Bill Calfee
 
Bill Myers tested some of the Lapua in his railgun

the particular lot was unknown to me but I feel sure you will see a post by Bill talking about the tesdt lot he tryedout from Charile Scott.

Judging by the smile on Bill's face, I will tell you it shot very well in his gun. He went back over to Charrlie's table and bought a couple bricks to try in some other rifles.

Ron W had some and shot at least one target with it. I shot one 5 shot group myself but the cases were a little too thick for my rifle and did not chamber well in my gun . The fouling group was about 3/10th but I just was not comfortable using it in my rifle.
 
In Fact,I did test some of it & i bought 2 bricks of it,I shot a 10 shot group with it in my heavy rifle that was setup in my new one peice rest with the Ball bearing rollers,The group was .133,That was good enough for me,I did shoot it on target # 1 & 3, # 1 was a 249,16 & 3 was a 248 & whatever,I did not shoot it after that,The wind was switching to fast for me to waste it,I shot my old gun with a lot of Eley that likes the wind, & did not have a target as good.Inez also shot it on 1 target,I will ask her what one it was. BILL
 
Joe Haller-"Osker"?

"My guess is that the new Lapua has been tuned for shooting with a sling. Do any of you remember the lesson Winchester learned at Camp Perry back in . . . Ah: 1947? Or was it '48? Their MK III was tested and tuned in a machine rest. They figured they had a hot produce. The prone competitors at Perry found that it shot bad from a sling. Seems that testing and tuning in a machine rest didn't work for shooting with a sling. Then, they build Osker. Anyone remember Osker? Osker helped the engineers tune with a sling."

Hi Joe

I was wondering if you had any additional info you could share on this either here or by PM.
Many prone shooters have known for years that prone vs bench testing has often resulted in conflicting results, but I can't seem to find any other references to "Osker".

Thanks,
Landy
 
I never could get my prone gun to shoot competitive groups from a bench, but it's a world beater at a prone match.

Bill Calfee once told me he has seen that result several times. I suppose it's in the reoil pulse.

HoseR
 
Bill Myers,

Was that 10 shot group shot outdoors? And if so do you have a picture that you can post here? That is getting down there pretty small for a 10 shot group. That is some tremendous shooting. I sure would like to see that group.

Brad
 
I shot these last Thursday evening with no windflags. The group on the left is the new Lapua from Charles Scott. The group on the right is the old Lapua I got from Midway. I subtracted .204 for bullet diameter on each group. I did put on the mid-barrel tuner I bought from Charles as well. There's a thumbtack in the center so you can see how small they are.

IMGP4494.JPG
 
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Brad

nice groups, but you really need more groups of each for a comparison. Shoot it in some windy conditions and shoot it in competition under pressure or just shoot some score targets and see if each will stay in the hunt. Is it worth the extra money?????? I doubt it very much, think I'll just stay with the Eley.:p
 
Osker . . .

Hello Landy: (HuskerP7M8)

I remember reading the story about "Osker" several years ago. Not sure if it was in The American Rifleman or in Precision Shooting. There where a LOT of articles in Precision Shooting about NRA Smallbore back on the late '50s and into the '60s, when Phil Teachout was editor.

Anyway, back to the 1940's: As I remember the story: Remington Match ammo was the hot product at the time. Remington was running lots of full page ads in the gun magazines about all the matches being won with Remington ammunition.

So, the engineers at Winchester/Western wanted to dump Remington off their high and mighty throne. They worked up a batch of ammo that was GOOD that year: What was it? 1947 - '48 . . . Brought it to Camp Perry and gave to some of the top shooters. The accuracy was not up to Remington standards.

On the way home from the National Matches, one of the "brighter" engineers thought of something. "Hey, These guys were shooting with a sling and we tested the ammo in a machine rest."

So, when they got back to the lab, they build a new "machine" that held the rifle with the same pressure points and tension that a human shooter has while shooting prone with a sling. And they called him "Oscar".

The next year, Western Mark III was the hot ammo at Camp Perry.

Joe Haller (Mr. Frosty)
 
Steve,

Those were shot in what I call damn near dead conditions. I shot the Lapua Master M that I have enough to know that the Eley ammo is just plain better as of right now. The Eley ammo is just more consistant from what I have seen at least in my rifle. I was just showing these to show some of this ammo will in fact shoot pretty well. The new Lapua Master M from what Charles told me that some guys used this same ammo I believe last year in ARA and finished in the top 10 in the A-Line. So it must be pretty dang good for the $6.90 a box not counting shipping. I think this stuff may have some potential.
 
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