Agenda Item: Springer Class

C

cris

Guest
It seems there may be more interest in the Springer Class than we thought.

Calibers, .177, .20 and .22
Power limit?
Weight limit?
International scoring rules apply.
Target at 25 meters.
One piece rests?
 
Calibers are fine, as for power they are not adjustable as in PCPs, the only way to adjust the power is to change the main spring, weight is not an issue because the main thing to get them to shoot accurrately is to keep them from jumping around from the double recoil, rules and distance are fine because we'll be shooting along side of PCPs and the same person will be scoring the targets so no reason for gumming up the works, and any rest can be used, there was a guy at holbrook during the AGBR days that shot off a car jack.
 
Fred,

Even if power cannot be adjusted, it can be calculated. If weight is such a hot button, why does it not matter in this case. The one piece rest question is because they are not legal by international rules. Thanks for the help.
 
Springer

I think

.177 -20 -22
15 lb. ( same as HV )
2 peace rest

I am shooting a 6 Ft.LB. RWS 75 Fred is a 20 ft. lb. RWS 54 ( i think ) Lets have a springer class but put few restrictions on it . If we see there is enough interest for different ft. lb. and weight then we can deal with it .
 
I think adding springers is an excellent idea. We need a platform to bring new shooters into the sport and the springer class should be tailored to do just that.

Factory rifles only, 177 ,20, 22 cals, and no other restrictions. If someone has a custom springer, they have to move up to the next class.
No one piece rest.

Keep it simple and easy to be competitive.

Gordon Dawson
 
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Your not taking your springer to an international competition, your shooting at club level, if you want to shoot at an international match then your shooting in an international class (12 or 20 ft/lbs) and following international rules (2 piece rest), otherwise keep the class as open as possible to attract more shooters, if they want to shoot internationally then they will make the investment for fancier rests and expensive PCP guns, springer class should be here to attract as many shooters as possible and an introduction to the benchrest game. If you want to put restrictions on your basicly telling everyone that unless you buy all this expensive equipment you can't play. As for the power level, I'm sure that its alot easier cocking a 6 ft/lb gun 35 to 75 times as for a 20 ft/lb gun and alot less recoil also which should make it easier to keep on target.
 
Then maybe we should call it the Open Springer Class.

Basic calibers.
Any power.
Any weight.
International scoring at 25 meters.
Any rest allowed.

You guys are leading the way here. Fewer rules might attract more shooters. I don't know how shooters will feel about using their R-7 against one of those Whiscombes.
 
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How many are shooting Whiscombes? I think we keep it simple and let this class evolve adding another class later if needed. Let's get people on the bench shooting first.
 
About as many shooting R-7s. I am all for keeping this as simple as possible.
 
Springers

Cris,
The big thing that will help Springers I feel is the 30 min time limit. When I shot my side cocking springers with the AGBR 20 min time limit. I was always rushed and by the third card I was lucky to get all 25 scoring shots in.
Now when Dan Brown showed up with his 25 year old Sharp Ace ? He was pumping it 8 times between shots. 4 by left hand 4 by right hand using the same bags he shot the 250 at the Worlds. Then when he bought his Indy and only had to pump 3 times between shots he even shot some sighters. This was all at 20 min. If he had 30 min he would still be shooting his ACE and beating all the PCP.
Paul
 
ModelA said:
Cris,
The big thing that will help Springers I feel is the 30 min time limit. When I shot my side cocking springers with the AGBR 20 min time limit. I was always rushed and by the third card I was lucky to get all 25 scoring shots in.
Now when Dan Brown showed up with his 25 year old Sharp Ace ? He was pumping it 8 times between shots. 4 by left hand 4 by right hand using the same bags he shot the 250 at the Worlds. Then when he bought his Indy and only had to pump 3 times between shots he even shot some sighters. This was all at 20 min. If he had 30 min he would still be shooting his ACE and beating all the PCP.
Paul
Click to expand...

Lol, I don't believe I would beat anyone with the ole ace. That was one very hold sensitive rifle, it had a lot of jump.
The worlds was the first time that I shot in competition with bottle guns, except for the time that you let me use your mfr to qualify. It makes a big difference having the extra time to choose your wind condition.
Dan
 
Dan,

You bring a smile to my face more often than any one else who posts.. or shot at the worlds.. your attitude and actions are what I think this game is all about!

I like the idea that springers will bring in new shooters. I would use the same weight and power classes and the international rules/scoring, and if enough shooters show up, then score them separately, if not, then mix their scores with the PCP shooters, by power & weight class... but note they shot a springer. NO one piece rests.. they only belong in UNLIMITED class.

Wayne Burns
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
 
What's the problem with one piece rests, if someone walks up with a caldwell one piece joystick rest and a 10 meter gun your going to tell him he cant shoot. remember, this is all club level, that guy is going to tell his buddy and so on and there goes to organization, springers are alot harder to shoot accurately to begin with. when your handing out targets do you find out which class they will be shooting and mark the targets accordingly. they all score the same, and they get recorded for the appopreate class. we did this in the agbr days and it wasn't that hard to figure out. everybody makes it out as being so difficult to score targets, the hard part is the different calibers. As far as scores go, your shooting different classes side by side already or are you going to shoot 12 ft/lb class for three targets then after scoreing shoot 15 ft/lb then 20 ft/lb then open then springer then unlimited. It's going to take all night to have a match. they're all shot at 25 meters unless you have someone wanting to shoot 50 yards and then just move his backer.
 
Wayne Burns said:
Dan,

You bring a smile to my face more often than any one else who posts.. or shot at the worlds.. your attitude and actions are what I think this game is all about!

I like the idea that springers will bring in new shooters. I would use the same weight and power classes and the international rules/scoring, and if enough shooters show up, then score them separately, if not, then mix their scores with the PCP shooters, by power & weight class... but note they shot a springer. NO one piece rests.. they only belong in UNLIMITED class.

Wayne Burns
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Click to expand...

Thanks Wayne.
Now that I think of it I ran out of time when I use to pump the ace 8 times. I ended up with six pumps per shot at the end to finish before 20 minutes.
Dan
 
You do know that both the International Sporter (6FPE) and LV (12FPE) Classes make specific reference to the allowance of Springers, and if a gun is running at higher power levels, then both the HV-A & B Classes are always available to them. Why add another Class when it's already covered in the rules we're trying to work with?

Dave
 
Dave,

Exactly right again! We have it already on the books.

Wayne Burns
 
Dave and Wayne,

Yes, in the international rules but this class is intended to be an entry level class here in this country, with as few restrictions as possible
 
Fred's RWS 54 is a cannon compared to most .177's. I don't know what weight pellet he was using when he, Rick and I shot together last, but he had his chrony set up and was getting occasional shots in the 1400fps range due to dieseling. The fact that it is a magnum springer makes it so hard to shoot that it would be very hard to compete against the smoother shooting PCP guns even in the higher FP classes. That said, there are ALOT of magnum springers out there. Give the guys a chance to shoot, and like Fred said in an earlier post, the ones that want to can move up. We need to do everything we can to get people to try benchrest shooting if this game is going to survive.
Todd
 
All good points. I hope this does become something that draws new shooters.
 
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