A brief explanation, please.

M

model14

Guest
When a gunsmith receives a new barrel to be chambered and fit to a receiver, has he told the barrel maker the cartridge to be chambered and the barrel maker has rough cut the chamber dimensions, leaving only reaming to be completed, or is the gunsmith starting from scratch with just a rifled hole through a round chunk of steel? From my little understanding of machining, I assume reamers are only for semi-finish and finish cuts.

Next question. Are chamber reamers just made to SAMMI specs unless I tell the gunsmith I want a special dimension, say a smaller neck diameter, so I have to turn the necks on my cases? If I tell him I want a special dimension, I assume he will have to buy a new reamer and that is going to cost me more many.

I am getting a new barrel fitted this winter and I want to try and understand what is going on before I talk to a gunsmith.
Thanks.
 
Model14,

If I can be so free as to add to good advice....... write stuff down. Here's what I mean; each time you have a conversation or get information WRITE DOWN the information even if it doesn't seem important. The hardest part of the learning curve is learning what to ask for, how to ask, and what's important.

It's common for gunsmiths to expound on "why I keep this reamer" or "why I ordered it this way" and they'll list their reasons....... you'll fixate on something like throat length or leade angle or the fact that a reamer is "sized to work with Redding dies" only to find out later that there are a bunch of items implicit to reamer design that you've no clue about. :)

Here's an image of a chamber reamer print (if I get the linky right) http://www.benchrest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6999&d=1232856210 ...try to get a blank one. If you want I can fax you some prints and some blank ones so's you can fill in your own details. I don't recommend that you fill out your own for order, but they're handy for note-taking.

What I did was to call PPG and have them fax me over some common designs for the cartridge in question. I studied/compared, then made a decision and moved on. NOW, after shooting many designs, I've found that I want the characteristics of several good, proven reamers lumped into my own "perfect designs"..... and I myself want a bunch of dimension not available in others' designs. But it takes a while to get to this point.

IMO you should buy a proven design reamer.

PPG might have blank copies, I don't know. I just went crazy with the white-out and made my own blanks on the printer. After you've filled one out for notes date it, number it and "name" it by writing a description of WHY you wrote down these pertickler numbers. It gets confusing.


SO, again, biggest item of all WRITE STUFF DOWN! :) Keep scrupulous notes and you'll build a more comprehensive and accurate picture of the process.

hth

al
 
model14 said:
I am getting a new barrel fitted this winter and I want to try and understand what is going on before I talk to a gunsmith.
Thanks.
Click to expand...


What cartridge and action and what is the intended purpose?
 
Build it right...

Dennis Sorensen said:
What cartridge and action and what is the intended purpose?
Click to expand...


Yes....
I assume your intentions are for 100/200 Benchrest registered or not, Group or Score....

6PPC.....

Lotta chamber reamer print options that Dave Kiff at Pacific can offer ya.

Another thing is ... Where are ya located. This will greatly help us help you locate a quality Benchrest gunsmith within a reasonable distance from you. This IMOP is VERY important in getting a new guy going >>right<< with solid capable equiptment... You will spend your money right and get off to a good start.


cale
 
Thanks for the inputs.
Here is my situation:
I currently shoot 100/200 yard benchrest for fun at our local public range. My rifle is a Rem 700 VLS in .223. I installed a Rifle basix trigger and bedded the front action area. The barrel was already free floating. I do my own reloading. I have shot numerous 3/8" groups with this rifle (when wind isn't a factor), but my average group is about .4 to .6". This is the first time in my life I have shot target rifle and I find it extremely enjoyable. My favorite load is 27 grns of Varget (full case) behind a Nosler 52 grn HPBT.
I decided I want to try long range (600 to 1000 yard) shooting using a high power rifle. We have a private club with a 600 yard range open to the public one afternoon a week. I already owned a Rem 700 ADL (synthetic stock) in 30-06 and I down have much money to spend, so I thought I would get my feet wet with that rig. I filled the stock with lead, bedded the action and epoxied on a 1" thick by 2 1/2" plank under the forearm for the front rest, plus added a large recoil pad and a rubber cheek rest. All up weight is about 18 pounds. I have about 100 rounds through this rifle shooting 180 grn Nosler BT's and using 46 grns H4895, yielding a 2588 fps average velocity. 100 yard groups are in the area of 1 to 1 1/2".
I am going to my first 600 yard shoot this week. I hope I can find the target all right, having never shot from the prone position before (no benches at this range).
My plan is to upgrade this rifle this winter, staying within a $1000 budget. Our local gunsmith says that he will true up my action and install a new Shilling barrel for about $800. I told him I was thinking of a 260 chamber and he said he would have to rent a reamer for that. He wants about 8 weeks this winter to do the job. I know very little about his reputation, but I do know that 90% of his work is hunting, not target rifles. When I go to the 600 yard shoot this week I will start asking about a good target gunsmith. I live in South Central Michigan, but I will drive most anywhere within 2 hours to talk to a good target rifle smith.
With some research in magazines and on the internet, I came to the conclusion that the 260 would make a good starting point for long range shooting. There is no way I can afford buying a good used target rifle or have a custom action made. Since my rifle will be a low investment approach I thought the 260 may be a better caliber to choose vice a 30BR 6XC, 6.5-284, or other target specific caliber. This is one of the largest dear hunting areas in the U.S. and I know that 260 is a good deer hunting caliber for those traveling to hunt up North. This may keep my resale value up some anyway.

So that is where I stand right now, trying to learn the right questions to ask a gunsmith. Maybe the right thing at this point is to just tell him to chamber for a standard 260 cartridge and let it go at that.
Would appreciate any more of your thoughts on this.
M14
 
My experiences

with the same(sorta) trip you are on. I'm about half way up the learning curve from where you are to the extremely knowledgable fellows on these forums. Having said this I think I can help a little because I still remember the pain. I started with my guy, and friend who was a very good general gunsmith. Many of his hunting guns were borderline br accurate. He would occasionally rent a reamer.He built me a 250 Savage I load with Lee dies that astounded br guys when I first showed up with this gun. Rented reamer. Probally would not go to a guy who does not have his own reamers or who has not built target guns. When we started this Supreme accuracy thing years back we discovered that much of the everyday conventional gunsmithing stuff does not apply.The learning is costly both in wasted time and wasted money. Ship your gun to a target guy if you have too.
I have all the respect in the world for general gunsmithing but ....
I would use a chambering that uses LAPUA BRASS AND LEARN TO LOAD FOR A BR/Fclass prone TYPE GUN. No way around it if you want to shoot tight. The short cuts seem cheap but they are not. Take baby steps and spend right the first time. Take your time, pick everybody's brain(good luck) and enjoy yourself while you are learning. The difference beetween prone and br is significant. There are two different schools and guys who participate in them. The bench/mat manners alone required to be consistent take quite a bit of learning. The best advice I got I just gave to you. Take your time, spend wisely, and enjoy the ride. It takes time.
LASER
 
Laser,
Thanks for the excellent advice. I have several months before I have to make any decisions. In the mean time, I will search for an experienced target gunsmith to work on my rifle. I have no problem shipping the rifle, but it would be nice to have a face-to-face line of communication. Maybe some of the guys on this forum can give me a recommendation for a good smith near central Michigan. Shooting the .223 has started to give me some good insight into the limits of a stock rifle. My VLS is amazingly accurate for a rifle I paid $550 for, but it has clearly reached its' limit of consistent accuracy at about
1/2". I shoot about 50 rounds a week and I am now concentrating on reading the wind and better breathing control. Yesterday I had a .185" group (5 shot)that was pure luck and no wind, but it was neat to marvel at. The other 4 groups were in the usual .4 to .6 range (no wind). Thanks again.
M14
 
Also, I might add....

model14 said:
Laser,
Thanks for the excellent advice. I have several months before I have to make any decisions. In the mean time, I will search for an experienced target gunsmith to work on my rifle. I have no problem shipping the rifle, but it would be nice to have a face-to-face line of communication. Maybe some of the guys on this forum can give me a recommendation for a good smith near central Michigan. Shooting the .223 has started to give me some good insight into the limits of a stock rifle. My VLS is amazingly accurate for a rifle I paid $550 for, but it has clearly reached its' limit of consistent accuracy at about
1/2". I shoot about 50 rounds a week and I am now concentrating on reading the wind and better breathing control. Yesterday I had a .185" group (5 shot)that was pure luck and no wind, but it was neat to marvel at. The other 4 groups were in the usual .4 to .6 range (no wind). Thanks again.
M14
Click to expand...
To also consider the 6mmBR. This is a very popular caliber in 600yd benchrest. If the local gun smith is reluctant to accept this caliber...go elsewhere.

By-the-way, the 260 is not a bad choice either.

virg
 
I have got a ton of great advice lots of great over the shoulder advice. I spoke at length with Jim Borden, when picking up the parts for my BR gun. His advice made the most sense. He said you will never learn anything unless you use a rifle that will out shoot you. If you have to wait cry once.
 
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