6mmbr VLD's at 100 yards

T

tcombest

Guest
I need some expert opinions on load development for a 6br. I have a Bruno built 6br, 1:8 twist, BAT M action in a tooley stock. I'm working on load development, with plans to shoot 300-500 with the gun. My current load Im working with is 29.0 gr. H4895 at 2880 fps with JLK VLD's. I've been working with variable seating depths and getting horrible results (at 100-200 yards). My groups have been in the 1"-2" range. Only today (in heavy mirage), I got a 5 shot group at about 0.4" at 100 yards with a .025 jam into the L&G. This is the most promising I've seen yet.

I have been told that 105gr VLD's won't shoot well at 100-200. That I need to load develop with them at 300 and further because they don't "stabilize" or "go to sleep" until they get further out. I've heard that I may get better groups at 300 yards with this setup than at 100 yards. This is just hard for me to believe. I've always felt that if you plan to shoot a tight group at 300, you better be shooting a tight group at 100.

Can VLD's be expected to shoot good groups at 100-200yds? Or do they really have to travel past 200 yards before you can get a good group from them?
 
That gun should have all of your 5 shots touching at 100 yards with the VLD's.I used 4895 for a short period of time and it shot well but Varget is hard to beat if you have any.
Using once fired Lapua brass and a CCI BR4 or CCI 450 Magnum primer 30.0 - 30.5 grains of Varget will have that gun drilling little holes.
If you don't like messing with the seating depth the Berger 105 BT Match bullet is an excellent bullet in my opinion.

On the 105 VLD's seat them using Bergers 0.040 step method and 24 rounds of loaded ammo.I think it is on there website and it will give you two radicaly different seating depths that both shoot well.

On the 300 yard groups a good shooting 6BR looks like the 100 200 300 and sometimes 400 yard groups are all the same.It has been discussed many times and in my opinion you aim better at the longer distances and this is why the groups don't appear to grow as much as one would think as the distance is increased.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
Ahhh...here it is...I have been looking for this thread since it was moved...anyway back to the fine art of "growing tomatoes" first start with a proper stake... aka... "no-shootin" rifle barrel...and you know the rest of the procedure....:D

Man... Tymn...I don't think the answer is going to be found here either...:rolleyes:
 
Don't you ever sleep Eddie??? Well, Lynn may have given me some good advice. I went to the Berger site and they say to load at the lands, .040 off, .080 off, and .120 off. I guess maybe I've been going the wrong way (sort of what we talked about). I'm going to take Lynn's advice and give it a try tomorrow. I just can't figure why this barrel isn't shooting really good groups. (And Lynn, I will let you know how the test goes. I do have 105gr bergers and also plenty of Varget.) Thanks for your post.
 
I'm more or less with Lynn on this one. The caveat is I don't shoot VLDs, that meaning a 15-degree secant ogive with a boattail angle I forget.

If we can just say "high BC, heavy 6mms," like at least an 11-caliber tangent ogive with a weight of 100+ grains, yes, they will shoot well at 100 yards. A flat .100 is probably asking too much. But it is asking too much of a 68-gr flatbase in a PPC too. Occasionally, yes. Consistently, not often. Teen aggs are getting more common, but we still remark on them. If you can shoot flat to low 2s, that's usually good enough.

I've told this story before, but I fired 3 consecutive 5 shot groups at 100 yards (counting every shot) that agged a flat 2. This with a 1K Light Gun with a 6mm chambering a bit bigger than the BR, and different powder. Bullets were 106-grain Clinch River bullets, not exactly VLDs, but close. The 100-grain C-River bullets seemed to group just as well. I'd be that Randy Robinett's bullets, what, 108 BTs? would also work in my rifle. But I suspect, as Lynn says, with the proper tuning, you should be able to get the Bergers to shoot. It would be odd if you couldn't, but some barrels just do not like some bullets.

FWIW, Ferris Pindell took a 100-something bullet with a high ogive & closed up the tips. He was getting awesome groups with a 6BR at 200 yards.
 
Thank for the input Charles. Heck, right now, I would be happy with some consistent .3's. I have plenty of Berger 105 VLD's, Berger 108 Match Bt's and JLK 105 VLD's to work with. I've mainly been working with .010 jump up to a.015 jam. I think I will open that up quite a bit tomorrow and see what happens. It's a new 1:8 Krieger bbl with about 300 rounds through it. I switch barrel and the other calibers are shooting great.... just been having problems with the 6br. Been pulling my hair out to figure out why. Thanks for your input.
 
Tymn...when pulling ones hair out be sure to start at the back and work your way forward...this will help avoid ..the Donald Trump comb-over..as you really get into the double hand full catagory...:D
Well...I am getting sleepy...must retire so I can get started on the new lathe set-up tomorrow...nighty-night...:)
 
tcombest
Do the seating depth test with a flat 30 grains of Varget then play with the powder charge as it will be within a half grain of 30.0.My rifle and my fathers rifle both like around 0.120 off of the lands and when your looking there is a dramatic change.
The 105 BT Match bullet is not the same bullet as the 105 VLD bullet it is more like the 108.
In my experience the VLD's like alot of jam or alot of jump.I have never seen any bullet shoot well at 0.010 off of the lands but that may just be the way I measure things.In my barrels I can jam the VLD's almost an 1/8 inch.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
Not VLD 107 SMK

Lynn said:
tcombest
Do the seating depth test with a flat 30 grains of Varget then play with the powder charge as it will be within a half grain of 30.0.My rifle and my fathers rifle both like around 0.120 off of the lands and when your looking there is a dramatic change.
The 105 BT Match bullet is not the same bullet as the 105 VLD bullet it is more like the 108.
In my experience the VLD's like alot of jam or alot of jump.I have never seen any bullet shoot well at 0.010 off of the lands but that may just be the way I measure things.In my barrels I can jam the VLD's almost an 1/8 inch.
Waterboy aka Lynn
Click to expand...

I am finally getting together a Savage LRPV in 6MM BR. Built up not factory. I will start barrel break in and (Lapua) brass forming next week. I am starting with Varget (30 gr) and 107 SMK ~.020 jam, at 100 yds. For 107 SMK's would any one have a window of possible seating max's from jump to jam, so I at least start out in the ball park?

Thank you.
Jeffrey Tooker
 
Maybe give some R15 a try. My Dasher likes the Berger 105 hunting VLDs jammed .010 with Varget and R15. They both shoot extremly well at 100. Low 1s and 2s are common.
 
Lynn,

I went to the Berger site and read about VLD seating depth. I went back to the range with 31gr Varget (2907fps) and shot 200 yds with lands, .040 jump, .080 jump, .120 jump. Had a clearly better group at .080 jump. Went back and reloaded at .060, .070, .080, .090, and .100 jump. Had to shoot at 100 this time, no wind but mucho mirage. The .070 clearly shot the best group at about a .27. I think with the conditions, I couldn't have done much better. I also found a fairly good seating depth at 0.025 jam. But you can't go to .020 or .030, or you lose it fast. I plan to work around the .070 jump and maybe I can get some really good numbers. Thanks.
 
Jeffrey and Tcombest

Jeffrey
When I shoot Sierra 107's I like them jammed real hard or right around 0.022 off of the lands for best accuracy.

Tcombest
Once you find the area were the seating depth jammed looks best with the VLD's it will only shoot well in a window about 0.005 wide.If you go the jammed route try and center it up or even a little to the high side so normal throat erosion won't throw you out of the accuracy window.
On the jumped rounds the window is slightly larger atleast on our barrels and it seems a little bit more forgiving.
Waterboy aka Lynn
 
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b/r

jeffery

can you go into some detail regarding your savage. im looking at a savage with a custom shilen 30in barrel on it.

what did you come up with. i will probalbly put ghooters supplys prarie dog stock on it.

8 week wait but dont need it until summer

thanks

bob
 
Building A Savage

cwop said:
jeffery

can you go into some detail regarding your savage. im looking at a savage with a custom shilen 30in barrel on it.

what did you come up with. i will probalbly put ghooters supplys prarie dog stock on it.

8 week wait but dont need it until summer

thanks

bob
Click to expand...

Bob:

I have built one Savage and have another one in process. The one that is completed is a 6MM BR Norma. The Action is LRPV Savage, right bolt right port. About $450 from Jim Briggs. The barrel is a McGowan which Jim had in stock. It is 30", 1" at muzzle, SS. It was about $350. I got the barrel so I did not have to wait 22 weeks for a Shillen. The barrel is 6MM BR Norma 8 twist. McGowen barrels are not well known. I have been hearing some good things about them. Mine seems to want to shoot (SMK 107), but the loads are around 30.9 - 31.2 Varget. My stock is a Dog Tracker from Sharp Shooters Supply. It is a good stock but it took 16 weeks. They are really backed up. The scope mounting rail is Bench Source (for Weaver rings) from Larry Scott in Ky, "Larry Scott" <greatscott144@yahoo.com>. I also got my action for the other Savage from him. He gives good service.

The other Savage is 30BR. Same action, same price, from Larry above. The barrel is Shillen 28", 17 twist, from Jim Briggs. I have not ordered a stock yet. I had the action trued by Sharp Shooters Supply and an Evolution trigger installed. The true and trigger was about $300. I will see how it works. I will probably use the one stock for the 30BR and the 6BR untill I get another stock.

I am working on loads for the 6BR. I have a club 1000 yd match on the 19th.

Jeffrey Tooker
 
savage br

jeffery

i saw the dog tracker stock pretty neat looking i figured a long time for it. i dont understand the offset do you?

i think i will call larry scott i have purchased stuff from him before good to have another source too for this stuff.

thanks

bob
 
Off Set

cwop said:
jeffery

i saw the dog tracker stock pretty neat looking i figured a long time for it. i dont understand the offset do you?

i think i will call larry scott i have purchased stuff from him before good to have another source too for this stuff.

thanks

bob
Click to expand...

Bob:

The off set in the forearm is to counter the torque of the rifle. This assumes a right hand twist barrel, which is the norm. I am loading for the rifle today as I have a 100 yard club match tomorrow. I have found a load I am going to try.

Jeffrey Tooker
 
At our range 100 yards due to the range and bunker design under some conditions we get very bad wind conditions for the first 25 yards plus a different condition from 40 to 60 yards. Even with six flags it is sometimes impossible to tell the conditions.

I have noted several times that when shooting VLD bullets with high muzzle blast the windage on bullets was excessive. A shooter shooting flat base bullets on the firing line at the same time experienced much less windage problems.

I think what is going on is the VLD bullets are coning badly in the first 50 yards or so. That is they are not stabilized and are not spinning about the center of their axis. In this condition they are Very High Drag bullets and they get pushed around a lot more.

I would be very interested to hear from those of you who know more than I about this.

Thanks
Octopus
 
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