300 Ackley question...

C

chazgree@yahoo.

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I recently bought a 1K heavy gun chambered for a 300 Weatherby Magnum case with a 40 degree shoulder and the belt removed. The brass is fireformed by seating a bullet with enough neck tension so that the round will headspace on the bullet with a new case and then on the shoulder after the case is fireformed.

The gun shot very well in my first match with it on Saturday. 210 Bergers went out about 3,000 and really cut through the wind. I want to order a reamer in a 300 Ackley caliber to use for both LG and HG in the future when I have to rebarrel and as this is my first experience with a 300 Ackley I have a couple of questions for which I can't seem to find answers easily...

Do other 300 Ackley type cases (with belts) headspace on the belt or on the shoulder? If on the shoulder how is this done when the belt remains on the case?

As having the brass prepped (turning off the belts, etc.) for the chamber I now have will get pretty expensive I'm wondering if there is any particular advantage in shooting a case with the belt removed as opposed to the regular, belted case?

Thanks for your comments.

Chuck
 
is the rim rebated also??

Some variations have the rim rebated as well...then the ctg can be used with a .308 (.473) bolt face....
I guess what Im asking ...is did you make the original brass ...and are you shure the bolt face is Magnum ....chek it allllll out....a used gun can be modified many ways ....just lots-0-ways to build em....
as to the belt vs un-belted chamber....the brass will headspace on the shoulder if you have your dies made and set up properly.....and you dont bump the shoulder bak more than a cupla thou.....
Roger
 
expiper...This gun does have the magnum bolt face. The brass I'm using came with the rifle and was fully prepped, I was told, by Ron Hoehn.

Unless there is some special advantage to having a beltless case I'm thinking that I'd rather use the belted case when I rechamber so there is less prep required.
 
Call me lazy, but..

I never FL size my brass.....ever! I only neck size. I can't see needlessly working the brass more than I have to. The case will always head space on the shoulder, it is way easier, and clean up is far easier. In my defence....I don't have any "custom" dies for any of my guns. I am sure that if I had a custom die made, I would try it......ONCE!!:D :D.

That is my $.02 ,for what it's worth. I have lots of loading expieriance, but would consider myself at or near the bottom of the food chain around here.

TOD
 
groovy..

Hi Chuck....what dies are you using now....will they accept a case with a belt on it???? If so ,,I wuld have the new chamber cut "with" a belt.....to simplify life....
If Ron Hoehn did the work on your rifle ...it is done rite.(((he is one of the BEST!!!)))..just one of many right ways to skin a cat......Roger
 
expiper...I got some Redding Competition dies with the rifle and brass. A neck sizer and a seating die. Belted cases will fit OK in these dies but will not fit in the current chamber.

At the moment I'm OK. Everything is working well but I want to understand the pros and cons of using belted cases before I order a reamer.

Actually Ron Hoehn prepped the brass. The metal work on the rifles was done by Rick Picarretta at RDP rifles. He did a nice job. It was later stocked by Bill Shehane. The work was all done before I got bought the rifle.
 
OK. The con of using a belted case is that the brass will grow just above the belt, and there is no real good way to size it. There are some specialty dies that help, and you can do a few things, but you're going to run into that problem with all belted cases. When the brass grows too much at that point, it won't chamber even after full-length resizing.

The plus, if it is that, is that when this happens, you'll have to get new cases, and likely it is about time for new cases anyway -- unless you've got something like RWS brass.

I think Mark King took over Rick's shop. I might have that wrong; one of the Pennsylvania shooters could tell you for sure.

Remember this, too. A "custom" chamber requires matching dies -- actually, any chamber does for precision work. So if you got custom dies with the rifle (not the Redding dies where the sized case won't chamber [unless that is the growth mentioned above]), your new chambering reamer should match those dies. That's why it would be good to get up with whoever took over Rick's business; you might be able to get a reamer print.

If you start over with a different set of specifications, even with a .300 Ackley chambering, you will likely need new dies as well.
 
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I see no advantage to turning the belts off. 300 ACK brass is hard enough to make without adding this step to it. At least with a belt you can use cream of wheat to blow out your cases. Case life is usually very good with a belt.
 
Charles Ellertson

Charles is Joel Pendergraft shooting a beltless 300 Ackley? I thought I read were he is shooting a 300JP without a belt?
Lynn
 
Lynn, the .300-JP is the .300 Ackley reamer run in short, and uses the .308 Norma Mag cases with the belt turned off. It holds right at 87-88 grains water full, just like my .30 Sort-of-Boo, or for that matter, a .308 Norma Mag unaltered. The unaltered .308 Norma has a shorter neck, which is of no consequence unless you're using the 187 BiB flatbase bullet, as we are.
 
Thanks for the advice, guys. I've got a much clearer picture now of what I'm dealing with and how to proceed.

chaz
 
I have many times considered taking the belt off my 300 Ackley reamer, of course I can make my own beltless cases. I'll take a non belted case over a belted case anytime. If you are running high pressure loads the belted cases will very likely cause problems during the cases normal life expectancy. If you are fortunate enough to have some very tough brass like RWS then problems are less likely.
 
Charles E or Joel P

Are you guys using the smaller case capacity for the increase in load density as I know you have full size 300 Ackley reamers at your disposal.
A typical 300 Ackley load depending on the bullet-freebore used will range from 74-87 grains of powder.

I notice your 88-89 grain case window closely matches that of aJR from across the pond.Is there more to it than 100% load density without divulging any secrets?

I am going to build another tensioned barrel gun using a 2 inch BAT action and was debating 300 Ackley using RWS 375 brass which is now extremely scarce if it can be found at all.I was also thinking 338 Lapua brass shortened up but was going to go with a 100 gr case size based on the success of the 300 Ackley.

I didn't want to go under 92 grains as I thought some of the shooters were getting very short brass life due to the necessary pressures of the smaller cases.As you know I like the top node for its accuracy and the clean burning of the powder.
I haven't had the good luck with the BIB bullets that the eastcoast shooters are experiencing but I did get a box in todays mail with them in it.I guess I don't want to build another dud if at all possible.
Lynn
 
Lynn, I shoot an 8x68 case necked down. It is not a BooBoo, because I wanted my own reamer, & wasn't about to try and take advantage my friendship with Dave Tooley. The BooBoo is proprietary to Dave.

My case is quite similar, except for a longer neck & a 40-degree shoulder. Regan Green's .300 Valkyrie is also on the 8x68 case (and I believe not a 'Boo for the same reason). It too is quite similar; I believe it has a bit shorter neck than mine & a 35-degree shoulder.

All of this was independent from Jeff Rogers, who also picked the 8x68 case for at least one of his chamberings.

Whether or not you can find happiness with a smaller case I don't know. You probably know of Regan's success in NBRSA 1,000 yard BR, and he's won a couple of IBS national's for HG-Group. We tease him that when he learns to center up his group, he'll be unbeatable, but the truth is at his second IBS Nationals, at Hawks Ridge, he took what was there (group) & didn't try to get too greedy. So he beat us.

Kerry Vinson has done very well with a .308 Norma Mag; many points and IBS Shooter of the Year. The .308 Norma has about the same capacity.

And Dave Tooley has done well at both 1,000 and 600 yards with his 'Boo, in both .30 and 7mm, at National-level competition.

Having said all that, you will not get the velocity with the 88-grain capacity case that you can get with a .300 Ackley. If sheer speed thrills you, you won't find happiness here. Maybe something like the .338 Lapua necked down to .30?
 
Charles E

Charles thanks for that info.I'm not really into the speed I just always seem to find a sweetspot near the pressure limiting point of the cases I am shooting.
My current 300 Ackley load for the upcoming 600 yard nationals is 75.5 gr of RE25 in a RWS 375 H-H case necked down with the Clinch River 216 bullet.
This is a very mild load but with the tuner/muzzle device I have vertical at 550 yard testing says its very good.
I normaly shoot 81.5 grains with everything else the same but my case life was not like a 6BR.My train of thought was pushing the shoulder back on the 338 case to mimic the 300 Ackley in order to take advantage of the stronger cases.
In planning this out I have read posts by Jeff Rogers and Tony that they were using RWS brass as the Lapua brass was getting loose with the loads they were shooting.I don't want to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire and would only make the switch if it was advantageous.
It looks like 87-92 grains seems to be a very nice window for case capacity in 30 caliber judging from those results.
Lynn
 
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