.30-06 to be rebarreled as .257 Roberts.

F

frwillia

Guest
In an earlier thread I mentioned I was thinking of rebarreling a sporterized O3 Springfield that my Father in law had made as a preasant for my wife almost 50 years ago now. It needs a new barrel because the barrel was trashed about 45 years ago by someone shooting corrosive primers and not cleaning it. After processing the discussion and all the excellent input, I decided I'd like to chamber the new barrel for .257 Roberts. At that point I got interested in other things, I seem to have the attention span of a lightening bolt as I get older, but it's still been in the back of my mine - I see that rifle every time I open the safe.

The most recent "Handloader" that arrived yesterday has an article on the .257 Roberts. Reading it over lunch I got to thinking about it again. I'm retired and Nothing is Urgent, so mulling over these things is fun to do. It's even better when the mulling improves the outcome.

It would be primarily an iron sighted "meat" rifle for short range PA deer hunting. It really only has to shoot one bullet well which would be something like a 120g Nosler partition SP or similar bullet. The normal COL for the cartridge is pretty short, but since I'm not limited by magazine length (.30-06 action) and that bullet is something like 1.175" long, I could seat it only .408" deep resulting in a 3.00" COL. This is one of the fun things about chambering one's own rifle - it can be custom chambered to fit the intended use.

That would mean ordering a reamer with a rather long throat length compared to the SAAMI spec, which is fine with me since it would only ever shoot handloaded ammo.

After fooling around with this cartridge in QuickLoad with the bullet set out to a 3.0" COL, it looks to me like something like 47.7g of Reloader 25 would push that bullet at around 2750 fps out of a 22" barrel with out exceeding the original 51.4 ksi SAAMI MAP limits. I'd back off 2.5g or so and work up of course, but this gives a better estimate of a load than just guessing with the bullet set out so far. I've had remarkably good correlation between QL predicted and measured muzzle velocities over the last two years I've been fooling with it.

All this brings me to my questions:

1. Am I missing something here that would say this is a bad choice of cartridge/bullet configuration for at least PA whitetail and maybe Mule deer in some place that has them? The magazine article mentioned this cartridge/bullet as being good for deer and that even an Elk had been taken with it, but magazine articles are ... well ... magazine articles and I've seen some strange stuff in them. Though I'd think it would be good for Mule deer.

2. Assuming I go forward with this, what's the best way to communicate with PTG to get a reamer that will cut the chamber to fit this cartridge/bullet combination the way I want it to? Load some empty unprimed brass with the bullet set to the COL I want (AKA dummy round) and send it to them with the order so they could use the dummy round to set the throat length?

Thanks
Fitch
 
frwillia said:
That would mean ordering a reamer with a rather long throat length compared to the SAAMI spec, which is fine with me since it would only ever shoot handloaded ammo.


All this brings me to my questions:

1. Am I missing something here that would say this is a bad choice of cartridge/bullet configuration for at least PA whitetail and maybe Mule deer in some place that has them? The magazine article mentioned this cartridge/bullet as being good for deer and that even an Elk had been taken with it, but magazine articles are ... well ... magazine articles and I've seen some strange stuff in them. Though I'd think it would be good for Mule deer.

2. Assuming I go forward with this, what's the best way to communicate with PTG to get a reamer that will cut the chamber to fit this cartridge/bullet combination the way I want it to? Load some empty unprimed brass with the bullet set to the COL I want (AKA dummy round) and send it to them with the order so they could use the dummy round to set the throat length?

Thanks
Fitch
Click to expand...
The 257 Roberts is never a bad choice. It is a wonderful mid energy, mid recoil round. The 257 Roberts Ackley is even better.

You are going to spend $125-150 for the reamer anyway unless you rent one--not a bad idea for a one-off. Then spend another $65 and get a 25 cal. throater and make the freebore anything wou want!!!
 
pacific tool and gauge, dave kiff and co will send u a reamer drawing blank or as you suggested just send them a couple of dummy rounds.

i think renting a reamer ( an advertiser here rents "min spec" reamers) and buying a throater( or rent one or ) is a better way to go for a one of and keep the cost down.


mike in co
 
frwillia said:
In an earlier thread I mentioned I was thinking of rebarreling a sporterized O3 Springfield that my Father in law had made as a preasant for my wife almost 50 years ago now. It needs a new barrel because the barrel was trashed about 45 years ago by someone shooting corrosive primers and not cleaning it. After processing the discussion and all the excellent input, I decided I'd like to chamber the new barrel for .257 Roberts. At that point I got interested in other things, I seem to have the attention span of a lightening bolt as I get older, but it's still been in the back of my mine - I see that rifle every time I open the safe.

The most recent "Handloader" that arrived yesterday has an article on the .257 Roberts. Reading it over lunch I got to thinking about it again. I'm retired and Nothing is Urgent, so mulling over these things is fun to do. It's even better when the mulling improves the outcome.

It would be primarily an iron sighted "meat" rifle for short range PA deer hunting. It really only has to shoot one bullet well which would be something like a 120g Nosler partition SP or similar bullet. The normal COL for the cartridge is pretty short, but since I'm not limited by magazine length (.30-06 action) and that bullet is something like 1.175" long, I could seat it only .408" deep resulting in a 3.00" COL. This is one of the fun things about chambering one's own rifle - it can be custom chambered to fit the intended use.

That would mean ordering a reamer with a rather long throat length compared to the SAAMI spec, which is fine with me since it would only ever shoot handloaded ammo.

After fooling around with this cartridge in QuickLoad with the bullet set out to a 3.0" COL, it looks to me like something like 47.7g of Reloader 25 would push that bullet at around 2750 fps out of a 22" barrel with out exceeding the original 51.4 ksi SAAMI MAP limits. I'd back off 2.5g or so and work up of course, but this gives a better estimate of a load than just guessing with the bullet set out so far. I've had remarkably good correlation between QL predicted and measured muzzle velocities over the last two years I've been fooling with it.

All this brings me to my questions:

1. Am I missing something here that would say this is a bad choice of cartridge/bullet configuration for at least PA whitetail and maybe Mule deer in some place that has them? The magazine article mentioned this cartridge/bullet as being good for deer and that even an Elk had been taken with it, but magazine articles are ... well ... magazine articles and I've seen some strange stuff in them. Though I'd think it would be good for Mule deer.

2. Assuming I go forward with this, what's the best way to communicate with PTG to get a reamer that will cut the chamber to fit this cartridge/bullet combination the way I want it to? Load some empty unprimed brass with the bullet set to the COL I want (AKA dummy round) and send it to them with the order so they could use the dummy round to set the throat length?

Thanks
Fitch
Click to expand...

Fitch,

If you are interested in something a little off the beaten path I might have an interesting alternative for you. I know where you can get a new reamer for 270/257 Ackley improved at a GREAT price. It should be even better than the standard 257 Roberts for your purposes. I just got one by UPS today, and it looks great. The maker has a sale on these and still had 3 left, so contact me by email or PM if you are interested, and I will give you the details.

My intent is to use a Redding Type S sizer in 257 Ackley Improved, and open the hole in the bushing "shelf " with a carbide bit so that it will accommodate the larger neck. I will probably order a Wilson seater blank, and use the finish reamer to make a custom seating die.

Guess I am just an incurable tinkerer :D.

Jim
 
Mike in Colorado, Please send me an email with your email address and/or look at your private messages. I would like to talk to you at the Denver collectors show.

Thanks,

Don Carper
Gunner223
 
While there is nothing wrong with the .257 Roberts, for an "anything" carry rifle, the parent case for the Roberts is worth considering -- a 7x57. As I remember, even Jack O'Conner regarded that as an all-around rifle.

As I never felt a 6mm was a good medium-size game rifle, the 25 caliber is my minimum. A 6.5 isn't much more than a quarter-bore, though there were some interesting small ones, like the 6.5x54 M-S. This was an old-timers favorite for black bear in the East, as bullets with good penetration could be had. But the 6.5x54 is essentially a 2-inch PPC in 6.5, not a good conversion for an '03. Probably more flexible than a .25 or 6.5 is the 7mm, and recoil is still pretty mild.

But nothing wrong with the Roberts . . .

edit: Yes, just send a dummy round to the reamer maker. BTW, there is .257 Roberts P+ brass available now, good for anything made off the 7x57 case, like the Roberts.
 
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Jim Wooten said:
Fitch,

If you are interested in something a little off the beaten path I might have an interesting alternative for you. I know where you can get a new reamer for 270/257 Ackley improved at a GREAT price. It should be even better than the standard 257 Roberts for your purposes.
Click to expand...

Jim,

Thanks for the idea, but after thinking about it, I'm going to stick with the long throated .257 Roberts set up for the 120g bullet. It's a nicely balanced cartridge for my purposes. The compromises all seem to work together for me. It's all the cartridge I need for this rifle. My thinking goes like this:

This is an iron sighted rifle and I have no plans to put a scope on it which makes it a shorter range rifle for old eyes. My Father-In-Law put a Williams Peep sight on the back which, with the ghost ring, works for my old eyes out to 100 yards or so. Around here shots on deer are seldom over 100 yards, usually shorter. The rifle still has almost 2000 ft-lbs of energy left at that range.

It has a shorter than normal pull to fit my wife, and a Monte Carlo stock that puts the eye right exactly in position on the sights as soon as the cheek hits the stock. It is the most natural rifle we have when it comes to being "there" as soon as the butplate hits the shoulder. This is good in brush country.

I'll probably zero it at 100 yards and never have to change the sights again in this life. The stand I'll be hunting from most of the time has a maximum range shot of around 70 yards. If I'm going to hunt the 300 yard hay fields I'll use a different rifle - one with a scope.

The long throat which will allow me to stick the bullet out an additional quarter of an inch plus/minus isn't an issue in a .30-06 conversion, makes more room for powder and gets rid of the only real objection I had to the cartridge which is that the actions it was originally designed for didn't allow for enough bullet projection out of the brass to work well with a 120g bullet - they wouldn't fit in the magazines of those rifles.

Mike in Co and Jerry,

The idea of renting a min spec reamer and using a throater has siginificant appeal. I had thought I'd make two of these barrels, but truth be told, the long throated version wouldn't fit in the other candidate action so it will be a One-Off.

Charles E.

Thanks for the heads up on the +P brass. It's good to know but I probably won't take advantage of it.

I modeled the 58000 psi +P version of both the Roberts and the Roberts AI in QuickLoad. They do have noticably more muzzle energy. But I don't think I'll need the extra thump for the intended game, and this is a rather light rifle, my wife is the intended shooter, so keeping the recoil down will help. It's chambered in .30-06 now of course, and I could just rechamber it in .30-06 with a new barrel, but the goal was go get a good meat load that would feed well in the 1903 action and have moderate recoil. My wife won't shoot it as a .30-06. She didn't like it as a kid and likes it even less now.

It seems to me that the hot rodded versions of the .257 Roberts are just climbing back toward a .257-06 on the way to the .30-06 if one allows it to progress to the logical end point.

So I'll stick with the standard Roberts case loaded to SAAMI pressure levels (51,800 psi).

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions.

Fitch
 
Fitch,

The pic below is a 700LA 257 roberts hunting rifle I put together. The reamer is a PTG # 135270, you can get a print for it from PTG.

It seats Berger 115 VLD's on the lands nicely. I highly recommend this setup.

The bbl contour is Remington varmint. I also made one of these in 6.5x284.

The rifle is quite fun to shoot.



Ben
 

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Bnhpr said:
Fitch,

The pic below is a 700LA 257 roberts hunting rifle I put together. The reamer is a PTG # 135270, you can get a print for it from PTG.

It seats Berger 115 VLD's on the lands nicely. I highly recommend this setup.

The bbl contour is Remington varmint. I also made one of these in 6.5x284.

The rifle is quite fun to shoot.



Ben
Click to expand...

Ben,

That sure looks like a fun rifle. Nicely done. I'll look up the reamer and buy a box of the bullets I'm thinking about using. That should tell me pretty much everything I need to know.

Thanks.

Fitch
 
That 120 is awfully............

heavy for a whitetail, you could easily get by w/the 85-87grnrs, & have 'em drop-dead NOW!! Really, there is no reason for the target & range you're contemplating, to go to such a heavy bullet; & that case has more than enough power to do what you want.......One of the best bullets for the whitetail is the Sierra 85BTHP 6MM, it drops them right there, all the time, toDAY.....;)
 
You may want to

consider the idea of the 115 Berger. That way if to ever want to scope the rifle and shoot longer distances, you'll already have what you need. And the difference in weight between the 120 and the 115 is negliable.
 
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