.257 WBY GS bullet shooter..are you there?

A

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Hello,

After reading some articles on the GS custom bullet web-site, one article was posted that was contributed by someone on this forum shooting a 257WBY and using the GS 100gr HV bullets.

I am currently exploring with a similar project and would be interested in asking you some questions!

Are you there?
Thanks!
Rod.
 
Rod,

I just helped a buddy get going reloading for the 1st time w/ the 257wby.

I know nothing of the GS bullets you speak of but had great initial results w/ RL25 powder and 115xxx barnes bullets & the 110 Accubonds.

This was out of a factory wby rifle. He was going on a hunt so got him some rounds to get started but still need to play w/ the chrono & test.

pf
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Thanks Paul...

I've been shooting the .257WBY for a few years now and have experiemented with various loads. If you Google GS Bullets, you'll see what I'm referring to. These bullets have some very different characteristics.

The best bullet I've found for my machine so far in terms of accuracy is the 100gr Sierra HPBT Match.
 
I read "Johns" post.

He is not a regular here.

Using BRC as an endorsement is a sales gimmick, you're not going to read the same glowing reports here although those look like decent bullets. We aren't going to rave about the "groupings" of someone's brand of monolithic solid.

al
 
The Sierra should blow up @ wby speeds anyway & I'm thinking hunting for that cal....the xxx barnes were very accurate in this particular gun as were the accubonds but have no actual experience w/ these bonded Nosler pills at faster speeds going through shoulders.

I ordered some 140gr accubonds for my .280ai to test. I love the xxx but blood trails are minimal & our brush is nasty. I have 120xxx's in it now & hope to test them soon.

I shoot 120gr Lazerheads in my 7.21 Lazzeroni which is a coated xxx. Instant death thus far but do not shoot it much.

Only 25 cal gun I own is a Roberts for rattling and It likes everything. I load Hornady 120gr currently.

pf
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Any time you make a shoulder shot (I don't care what animal it is) if the shot does not put him down on that shoulder shot, you have a bullet failure.

The key to most bullet failures is the high velocity most people think they have to have to kill game. The result is a bullet failure. I blame this on the inability of the hunters on not being able to run backwards to get further away from the game before they shoot.

I read this all the time on forums around the net,"I want better blood trails". I want to pull the trigger and have the last set of tracts the animal will ever make at the shot. Dead in it's tracts, is the goal every hunter should strive for.
 
Dear Big Al

Several times you have written about the "shoulder shot".

Being that this shot is not written or recommended in any books I have about shots at big game; could you please explain just what you mean by the "shoulder shot".

My thoughts are if this shot is not placed near perfect the results may be ugly.

I understand if prefected the "shoulder shot" hits them like a bolt of lighting, but not everyone that hunts big game can execute the shot properly and that is my concern.

There are a lot of folks out there that have a hard time hitting the heart-lung area.

Thank you.

Sincerely
 
Any time you make a shoulder shot (I don't care what animal it is) if the shot does not put him down on that shoulder shot, you have a bullet failure.

The key to most bullet failures is the high velocity most people think they have to have to kill game. The result is a bullet failure. I blame this on the inability of the hunters on not being able to run backwards to get further away from the game before they shoot.

I read this all the time on forums around the net,"I want better blood trails". I want to pull the trigger and have the last set of tracts the animal will ever make at the shot. Dead in it's tracts, is the goal every hunter should strive for.

Just not that easy ba. Along with my own lease, I help other friends who have permits needing help thinning deer & I use everything from a swift to a 7mm Lazzeroni. I have my own info. and other land owners / guides who are playing w/ this high velocity issue.

In south TX I may have a monster come out at 50 or 400....my thoughts are like yours and conventional bullets are plenty good @ 2900fps muzzle or less but when you start pushing 3k plus, we are pressing our luck. I will not shoot a trophy in the neck & I like using different cals / guns / ranges. Big culls and does for testing always get the shoulder. I do not agree that all shoulder shots 'should' drop & these little deer amaze me what they can do with huge holes. I'm not talking a few deer here either. If I got the roberts or the swift or the AR, etc. I use a drop in it's track placement but deer hit in the boiler (same area) can and will have different ways of what is a certain death.

I have realized I want an exit 100% of the time on mature culls where I want to save the cape for my taxi buddy & the solid xxx bullet drops them 50% & the other 50 they run....hit within inches of the same area. I have had exits 100% so far (7mm) & none make it far. The bullet works, It just stinks taking so long to find them so close. My two 7mm guns hate the scirrocos so I'm trying some of the other bonded pills coming out & hearing good reports of downsizing the xxx per cal to get the high velocity (reports are more blood / more drops) we'll see.

Yes, I could do it all with a shooter pre-64 30-06 model 70 & factory 150 fusions or corelokts, but where's the fun in that?? Gotta have a big safe for a reason.

pf
<><
 
Booollits

I've been shooting 100 Grain Nosler Partitions in my 257 Wby for 20 years and I guarantee they will not "blow up". They may peel back to the partition but after that you essentially have a solid. At long range and slower velocities they will expand like any other bullet. Heart lung shot=instant death, shoulder shot they will smash through both shoulders and usually keep on trucking.
I've killed 500 lb game in Africa with the 257 without a hitch. Deer, I limit myself to 350 yards and they still perform perfectly.
65 grains of IMR 4350.

I've considered trying some of the newer bullets on the market, but I have great confidence in the NPs.
 
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Pondoro By JOHN TAYLOR

Several times you have written about the "shoulder shot".

Being that this shot is not written or recommended in any books I have about shots at big game; could you please explain just what you mean by the "shoulder shot".

My thoughts are if this shot is not placed near perfect the results may be ugly.

I understand if prefected the "shoulder shot" hits them like a bolt of lighting, but not everyone that hunts big game can execute the shot properly and that is my concern.

There are a lot of folks out there that have a hard time hitting the heart-lung area.

Thank you.

Sincerely

A little know writer with somewhat limited shooting and hunting experience was a fellow by the name of JOHN TAYLOR. As a child I became aware of his books and have followed his advice about shoulder shots. "Make all your shots, shoulder shots"! In one of his books Pondoro he gives this advice.

My first edition of this book is copyrighted in 1955 by SIMON and SCHUSTER INC.

I have been asked many times by big game guides all over, what shot do you prefer to all others? I've never had one objection to my answer, "THE SHOULDER SHOT". Along with several other shots I will take, Texas heart, head neck joint shot. When being faced square on the neck bottom of brisket shot. But my preferred shot above any other is the broad side shoulder shot.

Anchor shots are the top of the list shot. The kind of shooting for the most part are under 200 yards, none of these shots will allow any animal to travel at the shot.

All of us read about the bullet that leaves a good blood trial, are these people NUTS? That is a complete failure of the hunter to make a descent shot or he does not know anatomy?

Stuck inside and watching these clowns on TV hunt whitetail deer and seeing them shoot and watching the deer run away? That is just about as poor of shooting as one can find.

The last thing in this world you want to do is to have to follow a wounded bear in the brush. Anchor them, don't let then run into the brush same with these big old moose. No one will think you are a mighty hunter if you don't know how to anchor the game with your first shot.

If you can't make a shoulder shot, then practice until you can. Learn to his and a$$hole at 50 to75 yards, learn how to make this anchor shot at any distance you are comfortable with.

I know you fellows in the lower 48 think you got to shoot any legal thing that comes along, but learn not to take a shot until you know that you can anchor with the first shot. The meat will taste better than when they run away.

Now I'm going to shock you fellows, for all the hunting I've ever had in the lesser 48 States the Remington Core Locks have been all the bullet you will ever need if you can get away from the idea you need to just back off the charge by 0.05 tenths of a grain when you vaporize the bullet.

When I have to have a bullet that I have total confidence in a bullet, I keep to the recommended velocities of the bullet maker and use Woodleigh bullets. Do you folks need them in the lesser? I think they would work for elk just fine or I know they work for the few of you that have a moose tag. Just remember to follow Geoff velocity recommendations and the rest is up to you doing your part.

Think about the spine? Think about the top of the shoulders, a bullet hitting all three of these places, the animal will not run away. Broken shoulders and a severed spine does not allow for any thing on the earth running away!
 
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Thank you.

We call this the point of the shoulder.

If you look at the hump on this portion of moose, elk, bear, this is what is called the "hump", buffalo have this hump also. A hit anywhere in the hump in the six inches in the hump is and instant anchor shot. You miss this shot you go over the back or if you hit lower you had better hope you hit the joint.

Any time I have missed the hump shot it is a no foul shot as it's always and over the back miss.
 
Lung Shot

What vital organ do you hit with a shoulder shot? Seems too far forward to get the heart. Granted it will break them down, but an instant kill?
I have had excellent success with lung shots. Some times they're DRT and other times they may run 20 yards or so. But it's such a large target it's hard to miss.
 
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Reply Twud

Your are correct the shoulder shot is difficult and is not recommended. Plus it must be taken broadside. If properly executed it is very effective.

When I say not recommended it is because less then 1% of those hunting can make this shot. Example: Watch one of those TV programs where they are hunting whitetail. Now from a tree stand everything is a given like distance and a place to rest the rifle. Like Big Al stated earlier how many of this deer fall at the shot? NONE = bad shots period. From my personal experence 90% of those shots the deer should have fallen in its tracks or traveled no more then a few yards with a heart lung shot. Most of the hits are high and to far back.

I will admit I had a mule deer run almost 100 yards after I severed it's heart from the rest of its body.

Stuff happens.
 
What vital organ do you hit with a shoulder shot? Seems too far forward to get the heart. Granted it will break them down, but an instant kill?
I have had excellent success with lung shots. Some times they're DRT and other times they may run 20 yards or so. But it's such a large target it's hard to miss.


Anchor shots are not killing shots. They are paralyzing shots. That includes all the shots I mention above. It makes not one wit of difference to me that I have to finish off and animal by cutting it's throat to bleed it and kill it. As mentioned above by John S. Every time you watch one of the deer on TV get hit and it's back legs kick under it's belly, you know the animal is hit wrong and is going to run. Yet you hear the comments made, that was a perfect shot.


Your assumption that nothing vital is hit when you make a shoulder shot, you are incorrect., where do you think the heart and lungs are in the four legged animal? Do you think that as the shoulder joints and spine are severed that there are no secondary bone blowing through the heart and lungs?

If you were to look at a diagram of the central nervous system of these animals you would realize that this is the center of that system. This is why this is the most important shot one can make.
 
IME the "reason" the the shoulder shot fell from favor for 50 yrs is that it "wastes meat." I grew up in a culture that favored firstly base-of-the-head/neck-shots.

Personally I think that the high or point-of-the-shoulder breakdown shot is absolutely the best.

All the oldsters in my life will castigate me for possibly/probably wasting backstrap and sending shards of bone through valuable meat.

al


BTW, Big Al, "Pondoro, Last Of The Ivory Hunters" was probably my first 'real' safari book, read it when I was about ten...... the second was "The Maneaters Of Kumaon", Jim Corbett. That of course led into Patterson, Roosevelt, Ruark, Capstick, et al.

And so it goes. Good Stuff.
 
IME the "reason" the the shoulder shot fell from favor for 50 yrs is that it "wastes meat." I grew up in a culture that favored firstly base-of-the-head/neck-shots.

Personally I think that the high or point-of-the-shoulder breakdown shot is absolutely the best.

All the oldsters in my life will castigate me for possibly/probably wasting backstrap and sending shards of bone through valuable meat.

al


BTW, Big Al, "Pondoro, Last Of The Ivory Hunters" was probably my first 'real' safari book, read it when I was about ten...... the second was "The Maneaters Of Kumaon", Jim Corbett. That of course led into Patterson, Roosevelt, Ruark, Capstick, et al.

And so it goes. Good Stuff.


Al: Could anyone pick better books? It has been and adventure for me to follow closely TAYLORS sage advise throughout all my hunting years.

Al, if you have a chance to shoot a moose, that hump shot wastes no meat. I have had problems with the top of the shoulder shot only with caribou using high velocity bullets, at distance. Even the soft point 55 grain .224 bullets drill holes and break nothing, just like if you took a drill motor and a drill bit and went to work on the scapula. How do I know this? Well it does kill the caribou, they don't travel, but you don't see this until you bone them out.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear, I'm am not a trophy hunter! I am strictly a meat hunter! I do kill for skins also.
 
Books

If you enjoyed those books and authors then here is one that needs to be in your collection:

Killers In Africa by Alexander Lake................the truth about animals laying in wait and hunters lying in print.


Alexander Books series editor: Mike Resnick
 
Shot Placement

Think I'll stay with the lung shot. Too far back and you get the liver. Too far forward and you get the heart. Too high and you get the spine.
Any of these shots will not destroy meat. Shoulder shots are going to turn the meat on both shoulders into blood jelly.
The nerves from the body meet at the base of the brain at the medula oblongota.
 
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