22ppc die advise needed please.

S

skeetlee

Active member
Fellas, i have been playing with a couple 22ppc 100 short barrels, but i dont think my Harrels FL size die is sizing my cases properly. I sent the cases in to harrels for the die fit, but i am having to bump my shoulders back about .005 to get a fired piece of brass to fit the chamber or so the bolt can close. I have two barrels the same and one other that is different but even with the barrel that i fired the brass in before i sent it to harrels is this same way. two of the barrels are brand new but i didnt have them chambered. I bought all of these barrels second hand for a discount. I think all three were chambered by running a 22ppc die in and stoping .100 short but i may be wrong. Dave bruno chambered two of these barrels but he used a private reamer so he doesnt have the print. I am currently checking on the other as i purchased it from a friend. I guess what i need to know is how i can get a die made for these barrels if i dont have the reamer or a print? I thought about sending some new three times fired brass back to harrels with the already purchased die, but i hate to if the die harrels already cut doesnt actually fit. I hate for them to have to have this die sitting on the shelf that they may never be able to resale, but on the other hand i hate to have to spend another 70 bucks. I tried calling harrels friday afternoon but the line was busy, so i will call on monday. I also thought about getting my own reamer made and having the one used barrel set back and re chambered that way i know for sure what it is. the barrel is a fantastic barrel with only around 400 rounds fired, if that. Like i said the other two barrels are brand new only fired by me tonight. I should have bought new barrel blanks and had my own reamer, but these barrels are still a heck of a deal even if i have to spend a little extra money for custom dies. Regaurdless i will buy myself a new 22ppc 100 short reamer so when i do have to set these barrels back i have my own reamer. That itself brings up another question. After i get these two new barrels figured out and i have a die made, can i have a reamer made from the fired brass so i already have the die the next go around? This is the first time i have ever bought second hand new barrels so i am a little unsure as what i need to do, to make sure i do this properly. Any ideas? My accuracy on the used (400 rounds) barrel is a little erattic. I am assumeing its the brass. I also have a bolt click on a few pieces of brass with this die and barrel. I know i need a new die but i am unsure what the proper steps are to obtain the proper one. thanks Lee

PS sorry my spell check isnt working again!
 
Lee- What seemed to be a bargain may turn out to be more expensive in the long run, along with a lot of frustration. Without having a sizing reamer made to correspond with a known reamer print...it's trial and error.....and you may never get sizing to full satisfaction. I am puzzled about the used bbl....you say it's fantastic, and later say it's erratic?
 
Hokay hokay...... y'er gettin' it figgered out, no panic.

NO your die isn't too long. You can shove the shoulder back .005 right?? NOT too long.

But it is too fat.

Harrell's are accustomed to this. For some reason I've ordered a half dozen of them and they've gotten them correct right out of the chute but many folks have had to send them back. They're used to it. Nor will the unused die go to waste. Harrell's are happy to stock them away and sell them again. Correct procedure is to send back the die and get one that's smaller diameter. Don't even feel bad about it, you will get to pay shipping for the screwup, and may even have to do it again until you get it right.

It's worth it to understand this stuff else your equipment graveyard will grow exponentially! Understanding the relationships allows repeatability over time. My greatest triumph is in ordering 3 different reamers for three completely different chamberings, over the course of 12yrs..... and being able to reuse a single die for all three chamberings.

If this is unclear please post specific questions, I've ridden this road a lot.

hth

al
 
Do you get any shoulder bump back ? I wonder if you actually have a .100 short die ? I thought Harrel's only did regular PPC dies (and BR). You might want to talk to Neal Jones and see if he can help you I understand he makes very good true custom dies I believe Harrel's makes a semi custom die pretty much made in advance and ships you the one they feel you need based primarily on the measurement of the base of the cases you send them. Don't get me wrong Harre'ls has an excellent product I own a couple of their dies and plan to order another in the near future but there is a reason Neal Jones gets $200 for a sizing die. I have never owned one but am told they are very good.

Dick
 
ya they are 100 shorts. they were cut by the best gunsmiths in the bizz! I say the one barrel is great because my friend almost shot a world record with it. he had to go with a different action so i talked him out of the barrel. Long story really. I have shot some teen groups with it myself but i have also shot a fair share of.300 groups. I havent played with the barrel a whole lot because i am afraid i am working the brass to much and i dont want to ruin it. I will get ahold of harrells on monday and see what we can come up with. I was wondering if i could make a chamber casting or something like that to get the proper measurments? I am still way ahead of cost on these barrels even if i have to buy a custom die, simply because i would had to have done this anyway if they were cut with my own reamer. I was just messing around with this barrel today so i thought i would ask about it to see if anyone else has had this experience. You know i do kinda enjoy all this really, as i do learn a lot from it kije said above. Its just very interesting to me! I hope i get it resolved though. LOL!!! thanks Lee
 
I just hope harrels hasnt already sent me there smallest 22ppc die. This die i have is already pretty tight, just not tight enought i guess? Thanks For the info! Lee
 
Thats just it dick, there are no numbers as they had to cut material from the bottom of the die and they didnt re-stamp it. My shooting Pard comminted on how tight the die was as did a few folks at a shoot. I just hope it isnt the smallest they make. That would be my luck!! I was doing a little reading on making a chamber cast, and that doesnt appear to be the most accurate method, nor the easiest. At least with the alloy Brownells is selling. they talk like this stuff shrinks and expands. How in the world would that ever work!! Lee
 
Yep! I will call them tomorrow. I was just playing around with this barrel and die yesterday and i havent ever had an experience were i had to push the shoulders back .005 to get a piece of brass to chamber, so i was curious. Boyd is right. I need to contact harrels! I just like sharing my experiences with you all! Lee
 
Lee,

Harrells will send another die or refund your money, it's no problem, they have a no BS guarentee. What you are experiencing is common with this setup. .005 is extreme but the best I usually see from most cookie cutter dies is .002 before the die sizes the base enough to get smooth closing. If you want a really good set of dies, send cases to JLC and have him make you a FL die. Know I do want to comment a little on why you might be seeing .005 with your thingy. First, measure the base of a fired/unsized case and then size it until it chambers with slight resistance, remeasure the base. What you will probably find is that the base is what is causing you to have to push the shoulder back so much, also while your doing this, mic you shoulder diameter, you will see a pattern. On the other side of this, a slightly different shoulder angle on the die vs the chamber (still within remaer maker specs) will give you false readings with the thingy that Harrells provides. I have came across this several times. During your measuring, if you find out that the base and shoulder has moved .0005 and the case still will not chamber with slight resistance, then keep scewing the die in until the bolt with out the firing pin drops to 90 degree. You will actually have the correct bump even if the thingy shows something different. If you really fall in love with the 22 short, let me know and I send you the name of someone you need to talk to about setting up a special chamber/die combination that is different that just running in the reamer a .100 short.

Hovis
 
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