222 vs 223

S

skeetlee

Active member
I have a good friend that is looking at putting together a LV benchrest rifle. i dont think he will travel to shoot many matches, but he will shoot out local fun matches. He asked me what chambering to have done, and of course i said 6ppc. He didnt even know what a 6ppc was. I then told him, how about a triple duce? He liked that idea much better as he had one as a teenager. I also told him that i have heard the 223 will shoot just as accurately as a 222 and that it just might be a little better at longer ranges. He said he didnt care what one we do but he wanted me to do some research for him on what one of these two chamberings would be best for the shoots we have. We shoot 100-300 yards in our local matches. I guess our question is, will the 222 be more accurate than a 223 by averages or will the 223 be the better choice with the added velocity? Something like that anyway. Whats your opinion? Thanks. lee
 
If he uses the Norma brass, the PPC is no more complicated than any other caliber....right? From that point it is like buying speed parts for a small block Chevy in the 60's.
 
Lee

I once had a very nice Rem 700 varmint in 222R. I re-chambered it to .223R. Biggest mistake I ever made.

The 222 is more accurate out to 300 yards. After all, it was the premier Benchrest cartridge for many years. I know coyote hunters here in AZ who routinely make shots with their 222s out to 400 to 450 yards. The only advantages I can see for the 223 are the availibility of cheap brass (sometimes free) and the higher velocity that are possible.

Ray
 
Getting back to the original question, I think that it is important that chambers be equally well designed and matched to dies for a valid comparison to be made, and the the quality of the brass be the same, If you take both to the limit, and were going to shoot out to 300, I would pick the .223, IF every thing was equal. (which they are most often not)
 
Truth be told,every thing being equal, the difference between these two is more in a persons mind than in actual performance!
 
My friend Denny is an older fella from down in Cumberland county. that might not mean much to most but around here Cumberland county is a few years behind the rest of the world. Denny doesn't know what a 6br or a 6ppc is, nor does he probably want to. I know that sounds a bit silly but thats just they way it is with him. he is a good old boy with simple ideas. "Sometime i wish i were so lucky" Anyway i am going to help him to get good brass and a good die, so there shouldn't be any problems there. I dont shoot either one of the two chamberings in question so i just didnt have a lot to offer Denny in this regard. I have talked with a couple other respected benchrest guys, and it would seem they kinda sway towards the 223 simply because of the extra velocity. they claim a 223 will shoot just as well. What little i know about it, and from what i have read it seems back in the day fellas were wild catting the 222 a little to gain some extra velocity?? Wasn't there a 222 1/2 or something like that? How about the 222 rem mag? I just want to fix my old friend up with something that when he shoots it for the first time, he will remember it for the rest of his days. Lee
 
lee all i can say is i had a 40x ks single shot in .223 with lapua brass and custom bullets the best i could do was .260's..never broke the .250 barrier..
If ya have to i would go truple duce..

The only thing i have ever seen is a .223AI shoot group's in the ones..but i have never seen a standard .223 below .250 , not saying it cant be done.

I say the 6BR no turn, zero free bore, 14 twist..you can stuff it with just about any fair powder and put a smile on his face,,you can do it just neck sizeing..simple set up..
The best thing you could do for your friend is set it up for him and give him a slight educadion on it,,it's the right thing to do..then if he gets into to it he could have a 6ppc barrel set up..
 
its not so much the case/caliber , as it is getting all the parts correct.
now that lapua has match 223 brass i would start there.
now how heavy of a true br bullet can you get in 22 caliber?
now pick a twist for that bullet.
now seat one and figure out what the reamer needs to do......
neck dia........
ogive length
case dia at shoulder and base...well up .200.....
it took me several YEARS to find a powder that would get my 1/14 twist to shoot 52's under .25....then tried some oem 8208 and under 0.2.....
so yes a competitive gun can be built in 223 if it is done right.
.....
having said all that why not a 22beggs with a no turn neck ??

mike in co
 
Most of my rifles are factory rifles that have been tuned. I have had numerous 222's (including a 40x) and will always have one. I have a 6PPC Sako Varminter and a 6PPC Kimber Ultra-Varminter. There are also a couple of 223 sporter rifles in the cabinet. The 222's have always been easy to get to shoot under 1/2 MOA. The PPC's are solid performers with the Sako being the rock star. I have been considering the 6BR for quite some time with a barrel designed for the 100+ VLD's for the 300 yard + work. I have a Shilen actioned rifle that is currently a 308 that is the best candidate that I have for the project. My research says that the 6BR using unturned Lapua brass is a great choice for a hassle free accuracy formula. I just want to load and shoot without spending endless hours caring for brass to get the performance. The deuce is a great round out to about 250 for ghogs but after that, I'll go with the 6's. The 6BR is a force to be reconed with. I have a friend that has been using a stock Savage 6BR for several seasons and really respects the 6BR at long range.
 
Lee, unless your friend has some overwhelming mania for a .22 cal., I would recommend a 6 PPC. You can cut the chamber for Norma brass to save him the brass-making experience. I have a .222 LV on a Remington action and it shoots great but not in the league of the 6 PPC. I have and have had a dozen .223s, including an AI, and they are never in the league of the 6 PPC. If he truly wants an accurate, competitive LV, then it's the 6 PPC. The 6 BR is one of my favorite calibers and I had my first-ever BR rig built in 6 BR, still have it with its third barrel. Great caliber, maybe the best at mid- to long-range, but still not in the league of the 6 PPC. Build him a PPC, let him see what they are and why they own the class, and make him a happy shooter.
 
I've had 3 222's, all shot well, in fact better than the many 223's I've had. I have also had 6ppc's one which I still have and a 6br's but the most accurate has been a custom 222 that I will never part with. Al.
 
Lee, once you put it together with dies and cases, the cost is only marginally more. Old school guys would adapt just
like the indians when they found rifles and pitched there bows and arrows. Go with the ppc
 
Don't make this complicated. 6BR with Lapua brass or 6PPC with the Norma brass. Either is pretty easy. Set him up for no turn necks, work up a mild load and rock on.

Addendum: maybe a 22 Beggs no turn. If he's comfortable necking up, a 6 Beggs.

Greg J
 
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Question to ask is does he want to shoot or compete. If there are guys shooting these matches with tight neck PPC'S a load and shoot 223 or most anything for that matter wont be competitive. If just wants to have fun that's one thing but after a while of having your tail kicked every time might take the fun out of it. I give the PPC boys a run for their money with my tight neck deuce. Lapua brass and so forth but day in and out just not quite consistent enough.
 
I started Benchrest with a .222, I have had .222/35, .222/45, .222.5, all of which would shoot better then me. About 20 years ago I did a article for a magazine in which I was trying to prove that a factory .223 would be a great starting point fo a factory class that we had here at the time. Rem 700 HB, recrowned, glass bedded, Jewell trigger, 36X scope, etc. Took it to it's first match and set the agg record with it in both 100, 200 and the grand. So they will shoot. Now to get back to the question. I would go with the .223 because if you think about it, arn't you trying to get a .222/35 to achive the velocity of a .223??
 
The conventional wisdom is, in my experience, the conventional wisdom for a reason. Used 6PPC and use that lathe of yours to cut a 268 or 269 neck for no turn with the Norma 6PPC brass. If he aspires to shooting longer distances also, set him up with a no turn 6BR. The Berger 87 VLD Hunting works great in about 80 thou of FB. Ezell's reamer is the cat's meow for that bullet.
 
222 great case set the world small group record/ 222.1/2 a 222 mag with the shoulder set back tto give extra capacity,
Great case. 222 mag shoots great at 200 to 300 but gets edged out by the 222 at 100.
on aveage all shoot really well, The mag and 222 1/2 are really good at 200 yds but the 222 is king when the wind is down at both 100 and 200 yds.
The 222 is one of the best cases to start a young shooter or lady , especially in H/V.
Easy to shoot with very mild recoil.
 
The chap had a 222 as a kid and remembers it.

Build him a nice 222 and let the memories roll; the 222 will bring back good memories and warm his heart like no other will.

And the 222 ain't no slouch in the accuracy department either.

Jim
 
As you may have read, I recently had Russ Haydon build my first centerfire benchrest rifle. After many hours of research, I chose .222 Remington as the cartridge. There were several factors in this decision.:

1. Though the 6 PPC is the latest and greatest, there are records still held by the 222 cartridge.
2. The 222 has light recoil, compared to nearly any other centerfire cartridge. As my one functioning shoulder doesn't react well to heavy recoil, this was very important to me personally.
3. Lapua brass for the 222 is readily available.
4. Even buying premium bullets, the 222 relatively is cheap to feed.
5. The 222 has great history as a varmint and a competition cartridge. As Russ says, the 222 is a 56 Chevy, not the latest and greatest but very high in cool points.

I admit to being a novice shooter, as yet learning the rifle and not ready to compete or post targets for you all to admire. Still, I could not be happier with what Russ built for me. You can see it in my thread titled "The Haydon BAT 222".
 
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