L
Lucky Shooter A
Guest
Does anyone have recommendations for a 222 Rem reamer----particularly in the neck, freebore and throat dimensions ?
Will appreciate any info.
A. Weldy
Will appreciate any info.
A. Weldy
L
Lucky Shooter A
Guest
Good to go
Thanks to Boyd and Rick.
A. Weldy
Thanks to Boyd and Rick.
A. Weldy
Dusty Stevens
Hollow Point Dispenser
These PMs are good for the archives.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Years ago, perhaps 20, I was putting together my first rifle that was to be solely for target shooting from a bench. I couldn't afford a full house competition rifle so I did the best that I could with what I could afford. The whole project was begun because I was so very tired of dealing with factory barrels that would foul out to a point where their finest accuracy was unavailable, in a relatively few rounds, and then after they were cleaned, required a wasteful number of rounds to start shooting their best. This caused me to look around for what would be the most accurate, and barrel thrifty round that I could come up with for 100 yd. shooting, and at that time I picked the .222. Competition was not so much the goal, just shooting against myself at the range. The first thing that I did was to buy a 14 twist Hart barrel, and then I picked up a 722 rifle for its action and trigger. Next came a used 40x rimfire prone stock, of the older design that used the 722 bottom metal. The next thing on the list would be a reamer. I wanted a tight neck, and roped a friend into splitting the cost. He had a lathe that he had primarily used for automotive work, but had recently become interested in doing rifle work, and I had helped him by splitting the cost of a good book on the subject, and lending him a better micrometer than he possessed, introducing him to the significance of ten-thousandths of an inch.
Then there was the matter of reamer dimensions. This was to be the first of several projects that involved determining reamer dimensions by sizing fired cases, and I will have to admit that I got one of the dimensions a bit wrong, nothing serious, but nevertheless wrong. It was the neck. I specified .244. It should have been .246 because it turned out that although the body dimension that I came up with by surveying both of our one piece FL dies worked just fine, the neck dimension resulted in insufficient neck tension (I use my Wilson neck die to deal with this issue.) unless I wanted to run fitted necks, something that I did not want to do. Since then I have picked up several other FL dies and all of them would work turned necks, a proper amount of loaded round clearance, and have good neck tension if based on a .246 chamber neck. Another thing that I have learned in the intervening years, is that you can set up a chamber and one piece die so that without the expander you have say two or three thousandths neck tension, and .001 less with the expander, and at that level of expansion do absolutely no harm to concentricity.
Getting back to the body dimensions for a minute, it is best to use brass that has seen a lot of firing and sizing cycles, for this particular application, because it will be well work hardened, with the result that it comes out of the sizing die a little larger than fresh brass, and if we are trying for a close fit, and if we did not work with cases that show us the largest result from that die, we could end up with a die that eventually will not size enough as brass hardens. In any case, I would make my reamer about .001 to .0015 larger than the sized cases measure at the back. This should be measured at about the distance from the head that one sees the expansion line that is usual on factory chambers, which is above the usual .200 level that is common to reamer spec's. You can convert this with a little math to the proper dimension at the .200 from the bolt face dimension. At the shoulder, .001 is plenty of room. You could even go .0005. In truth you don't really need any sizing here, as long as you use brass that was originally from your chamber. This may sound a little suspicious, but it is based on experience rather than conjecture, just make sure that your measurements and tools are good, and measure several cases. I find that calipers are easier to use on case shoulders, and suggest that you check them against a good micrometer by measuring things that are parallel sided, and about the same size as the case, with both. As always, technique matters too. With calipers, too much or two little thumb pressure can make a difference when thousandths are important, so take your time and measure more than once, on more than one day. When you are sizing your fired cases, make sure that you have fully inserted the case in the die, by measuring shoulder bump.
The reason for all of this is to end up with the best match between chamber and FL die, and very straight ammunition. As convenient as bushing dies are, having used both, a properly dimensioned one piece FL die is likely to produce more concentric sized brass than its bushing brother. Also, the less sizing that is done, the less that cases grow, and the less that unevenness in case wall thickness will result in "banana" shaped cases.
The second reamer that I ordered, using this method, I got 100% correct, and the ammunition that came from that die was amazingly straight. The reamer was used to chamber a Shilen barrel for a .223 that was built on a single shot Savage, that went into a custom stock that was pillar bedded. The fellow that owned the rifle and did the work, is a very good shot, and I am convinced that he could have held his end up with that rifle in registered competition, to the extent that he would have made mid field.
Returning to my early bench project for a minute, that rifle eventually got a Canjar light pull trigger (2-12 oz.), a B&L 36X scope, and the barreled action promoted into a prototype McMillan stock, thanks to the generosity of Kelly McMillan. This last addition was the icing on the cake, and since that was done, the rifle has shot a number of groups that were under .2". The old duce may be out of date for competition, but with the right driver, it can still do credible work ( as long as you pay close attention to your flags).
Then there was the matter of reamer dimensions. This was to be the first of several projects that involved determining reamer dimensions by sizing fired cases, and I will have to admit that I got one of the dimensions a bit wrong, nothing serious, but nevertheless wrong. It was the neck. I specified .244. It should have been .246 because it turned out that although the body dimension that I came up with by surveying both of our one piece FL dies worked just fine, the neck dimension resulted in insufficient neck tension (I use my Wilson neck die to deal with this issue.) unless I wanted to run fitted necks, something that I did not want to do. Since then I have picked up several other FL dies and all of them would work turned necks, a proper amount of loaded round clearance, and have good neck tension if based on a .246 chamber neck. Another thing that I have learned in the intervening years, is that you can set up a chamber and one piece die so that without the expander you have say two or three thousandths neck tension, and .001 less with the expander, and at that level of expansion do absolutely no harm to concentricity.
Getting back to the body dimensions for a minute, it is best to use brass that has seen a lot of firing and sizing cycles, for this particular application, because it will be well work hardened, with the result that it comes out of the sizing die a little larger than fresh brass, and if we are trying for a close fit, and if we did not work with cases that show us the largest result from that die, we could end up with a die that eventually will not size enough as brass hardens. In any case, I would make my reamer about .001 to .0015 larger than the sized cases measure at the back. This should be measured at about the distance from the head that one sees the expansion line that is usual on factory chambers, which is above the usual .200 level that is common to reamer spec's. You can convert this with a little math to the proper dimension at the .200 from the bolt face dimension. At the shoulder, .001 is plenty of room. You could even go .0005. In truth you don't really need any sizing here, as long as you use brass that was originally from your chamber. This may sound a little suspicious, but it is based on experience rather than conjecture, just make sure that your measurements and tools are good, and measure several cases. I find that calipers are easier to use on case shoulders, and suggest that you check them against a good micrometer by measuring things that are parallel sided, and about the same size as the case, with both. As always, technique matters too. With calipers, too much or two little thumb pressure can make a difference when thousandths are important, so take your time and measure more than once, on more than one day. When you are sizing your fired cases, make sure that you have fully inserted the case in the die, by measuring shoulder bump.
The reason for all of this is to end up with the best match between chamber and FL die, and very straight ammunition. As convenient as bushing dies are, having used both, a properly dimensioned one piece FL die is likely to produce more concentric sized brass than its bushing brother. Also, the less sizing that is done, the less that cases grow, and the less that unevenness in case wall thickness will result in "banana" shaped cases.
The second reamer that I ordered, using this method, I got 100% correct, and the ammunition that came from that die was amazingly straight. The reamer was used to chamber a Shilen barrel for a .223 that was built on a single shot Savage, that went into a custom stock that was pillar bedded. The fellow that owned the rifle and did the work, is a very good shot, and I am convinced that he could have held his end up with that rifle in registered competition, to the extent that he would have made mid field.
Returning to my early bench project for a minute, that rifle eventually got a Canjar light pull trigger (2-12 oz.), a B&L 36X scope, and the barreled action promoted into a prototype McMillan stock, thanks to the generosity of Kelly McMillan. This last addition was the icing on the cake, and since that was done, the rifle has shot a number of groups that were under .2". The old duce may be out of date for competition, but with the right driver, it can still do credible work ( as long as you pay close attention to your flags).
L
Lucky Shooter A
Guest
Interesting approach
I think our mutual friend, Larry S., has done a similar approach with one-piece custom Hornady dies and seems to like his results---don't know
his dimensions.
Have you done this with any other rounds ?
Thanks for your reply.
A. Weldy
I think our mutual friend, Larry S., has done a similar approach with one-piece custom Hornady dies and seems to like his results---don't know
his dimensions.
Have you done this with any other rounds ?
Thanks for your reply.
A. Weldy
Boyd Allen
Active member
Yes several. I have ordered a PPC reamer to match a Hornady one piece die, as I mentioned in the post, a .223, , and a 7mm WSM, that with to match a FL bushing die. The neat part is that you get a custom fit, and only have to pay for a stock die. To me paying for a custom Fl die seems like a big waste of resources when there is fired brass in the caliber available, making working from sized cases possible. Some guys have a problem getting their head around it, but it is only an option, nothing more. Another way is to make up a dummy round and let the reamer measure it with his optical comparitor and add the clearances that you request to come up with a chamber drawing.