.220 Swift Norma brass question

What the thickness is, I don't know, but the .220 swift was orignally a Bench Rest cartridge. A lot of people don't know that. The idea of that was to get down sooner, therefore Bench Rest accuracy. And the .22-250 would soon follow.
 
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R Stiner said:
.0133
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Mr. Stiner, thank you for the reply,

.013 seems thin. I have checked several batches of Winchester and it averages .017. Unfortunately the neck thickness run-out is just too much for my liking. .013 even in my SAAMI minimum chamber with a .260 neck leaves .005 clearance per side. I usually do .001 to .0015 per side in my tight neck guns. For the Swift I think .016 would be a good compromise. I know Hornady also averages .013 so I guess I'll have to find some Winchester that doesn't have excessive run-out.
 
The virgin Norma 220 Swift cases on hand here measure an average of .0145. Later Winchester cases are close to .017 and the virgin Remington cases I have average .0160.

While that does seem thin for a production cartridge, there's a reason for this. The Swift had a reputation 'in the day' for extreme pressure spikes and gun warranty problems were the result. The factories chambering the Swift responded with larger than average chamber neck diameters (in the .260-.264 range) and the brass mfgs. thinned the necks in an attempt to get ahead of the issue. Of course, the real culprit was brass flowing forward due to the gentle shoulder angle combined with high pressures and relatively primitive loading/sizing practices (by today's standards).

For what it's worth, the Norma cases in my Swifts (I've had quite a few) would rattle the primer pockets loose pretty quickly. The Remington cases are better than you would think they might be. Hands down, the best cases I've found for the Swift are the WW Super if you can find them.

For what it's worth....

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Thanks Mr Nyhus for the history lesson It makes sense to me now!

when I got this 220 Swift Norma brass {4Yrs maybe 5yrs ago} I thought it was pretty thin necks compared to other brands of brass in the past I've used. they all have plenty of neck clearance I just assumed quality control issue.

I only size about 90% of the case neck length and a 52gr BIB's bullet just kiss'n the lands. Coyote's hate the hell out of it!:cool:

You are right about primer pockets loosening up!
If I had to use this brass for competition it would not last through a day.

I'll Keep an eye out for some 220 swift Winchester brass.

Thanks
Russ
 
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Al Nyhus said:
The virgin Norma 220 Swift cases on hand here measure an average of .0145. Later Winchester cases are close to .017 and the virgin Remington cases I have average .0160.

While that does seem thin for a production cartridge, there's a reason for this. The Swift had a reputation 'in the day' for extreme pressure spikes and gun warranty problems were the result. The factories chambering the Swift responded with larger than average chamber neck diameters (in the .260-.264 range) and the brass mfgs. thinned the necks in an attempt to get ahead of the issue. Of course, the real culprit was brass flowing forward due to the gentle shoulder angle combined with high pressures and relatively primitive loading/sizing practices (by today's standards).

For what it's worth, the Norma cases in my Swifts (I've had quite a few) would rattle the primer pockets loose pretty quickly. The Remington cases are better than you would think they might be. Hands down, the best cases I've found for the Swift are the WW Super if you can find them.

For what it's worth....

Good shootin'. -Al
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Al,
Your points are well taken and I am in agreement with all of them. The Swift is a slightly different animal than most varmint cartridges. Those who neck size only often find themselves in trouble due to, as you point out, brass flowing forward. Bumping the shoulders .002 and or full length sizing every couple of firings seems to circumvent brass flow.
 
Sorry about that. Will check around and see what's available....keeps me out of trouble.

Mort
 
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I know this question is kind of hijacking the thread but it seemed like a good place to broach another question.

Does anyone have any load date for 220 Swift using Vihtavori N-540 and a 52 grain bullet?
 
Sorry about the bum information. I haven't found anything that doesn't require a backorder, and even more so if you specify Winchester. There were some
used cases that sold on Gun Broker last month. $35 for 60 cases. Will keep you in mind in case I stumble on something.

Mort
 
dmort said:
Sorry about the bum information. I haven't found anything that doesn't require a backorder, and even more so if you specify Winchester. There were some
used cases that sold on Gun Broker last month. $35 for 60 cases. Will keep you in mind in case I stumble on something.

Mort
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Thanks Mort
 
SAAMI specs for the Swift chamber - neck is .261” while the 22-250 chamber - neck is .255”

My Swift Norma brass necks are .014” - .0145” , loaded cartridge necks were .253”, my fired necks were .262”. .009” expansion.

The Winchester brass I have has .0175” neck thickness. I did a 80% cleanup turn to 0.165”. Loaded necks are .257”

I had the best grouping with the turned Winchester brass and more loads before necks split.

I never heard the Swift (developed in 1935) was developed as a benchrest cartridge but read about L. E. “Sam”Wilson’s 220 Wilson Arrow, a cartridge formed from the Swift he shot in benchrest matches. The shoulder was set back to give a 30* shoulder to get a longer neck and slightly less capacity compared to the Swift.


LE Sam Wilson_zpsyiuoycmu.jpg
 
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firearmsunlimit said:
I know this question is kind of hijacking the thread but it seemed like a good place to broach another question.

Does anyone have any load date for 220 Swift using Vihtavori N-540 and a 52 grain bullet?
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Handloader Magazine has a nice article on the 220 Swift and some load data......but no N540.

Mort
 
I worked with N540 in one of my Swifts with the Nosler 50 gr BTips. Accurate and about 125 fps. velocity increase over Accurate 2700 and WW760. It worked the front of the case pretty hard...the bottom of the necks needed attention about every third firing. I went back to Accurate 2700 as it's not only easier on the cases but the hard carbon in the throat is much less pronounced than any other powder I've used in the Swifts.

For some reason, the case design of the Swift...based on the 6MM Lee Navy and all wrong by today's standards...lets it achieve peak accuracy at peak velocities. If you examine the back end of a sectioned Swift case, they are hell-for-stout. While many tout the 22-250 as being 'as good as' a Swift, the peak accuracy of the 22-250 comes well below top velocities....a trait that carries over to the 22-250 AI version, as well.

Quirks and all, the Swift remains the King of the big 22's. The Ackley version addresses the quirks and it becomes King Kong. ;)

Good shootin' :) -Al
 
yes - THIS!

al nyhus said:
i worked with n540 in one of my swifts with the nosler 50 gr btips. Accurate and about 125 fps. Velocity increase over accurate 2700 and ww760. It worked the front of the case pretty hard...the bottom of the necks needed attention about every third firing. I went back to accurate 2700 as it's not only easier on the cases but the hard carbon in the throat is much less pronounced than any other powder i've used in the swifts.

For some reason, the case design of the swift...based on the 6mm lee navy and all wrong by today's standards...lets it achieve peak accuracy at peak velocities. If you examine the back end of a sectioned swift case, they are hell-for-stout. While many tout the 22-250 as being 'as good as' a swift, the peak accuracy of the 22-250 comes well below top velocities....a trait that carries over to the 22-250 ai version, as well.

Quirks and all, the swift remains the king of the big 22's. The ackley version addresses the quirks and it becomes king kong. ;)

good shootin' :) -al
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^^^^^^^ ;)rg
 
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