218 Bee

S

Slowshot

Member
Recently, I have noticed several Martini rifles chambered in 218 Bee. I am interested in what kind of accuracy you have gotten with this cartridge and with what action. As I mentioned elsewhere, my large action Martini was chambered as a 218 Bee by Bill Sukalle and later the chamber was sleeved to 22LR. Now I am a bit sorry that was done.

Currently, I am learning load development with my Ruger No. 1. I am finding the 220 Swift cartridge that it is chambered for to be a bit much. Yesterday, with 40 gr. bullets pushed by 38.5 gr of IMR 4064, I fired three rounds at 100 yards and punched a one inch hole through the backboard of the target stand I was using. The backblow of the shreaded wood destroyed the center of my target. That's a bit of overkill for me. It's rather difficult to measure your group size when your bullets are destroying the target and the backboard.

I enjoy hand loading but I am thinking of selling the Ruger to go to a milder caliber, so I am interested in your experiences with the 218 Bee. It uses less than 1/2 the powder of the 220 Swift and is reported to be quite accurate out to 150-200 yards. None of the ranges near me have more than 200 yards available anyhow.

I would rather not go to the more expensive cartridges such as the the 22 PPC or the 6mm PPC. The cost of brass alone seems a bit much to me.
 
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I haven't checked lately, but how available is .218 brass these days?

Not that brass for one would be any easier to find than for a Bee, but over 30 years ago I saw a very nice small Martini in .222 R(immed) at Eddy Bauer's in Seattle (back before they became a yuppy clothing emporium obviously). Wish I'd had the money and the brains to have bought it.

You don't say what your target backer is, but maybe something softer like cardboard or foam insulation board would be easier on your targets.
 
If you want something small to shoot for target & varmint, get a 223. If that's not small enough, find or build something in 221 Fireball. And, if that's still not small enough, get something in 22 Hornet & have it re-chambered in K-Hornet. The smaller you go, the narrower the field of components to play with. I have a Ruger No. 1-B in 218 Bee, but it's gonna stay in the box as long as I can stand it. Cooper, Dakota and Kimber made some nice rifles in the small calibers, and CZ has made the 527 in several of the small calibers. I have been having fun with the K-Hornet in a couple of Anschutz HB Classics for the past year or so. From an objective point of view, the Fireball or a 222 Rem would be the best really small calibers IMO.

For target backers, you will never find anything better than Coroplast, which is the plastic corogated board that cheap signs are made from. Check with your friendly local sign shop, especially during election time. Many times they have scrap generated from sign making boo-boos. Even if you have to buy it, it's pretty inexpensive stuff.

Good luck with the small caliber stuff. Be sure to let us know how it worked out.
 
Joe Entrekin said:
If you want something small to shoot for target & varmint, get a 223. If that's not small enough, find or build something in 221 Fireball. And, if that's still not small enough, get something in 22 Hornet & have it re-chambered in K-Hornet. The smaller you go, the narrower the field of components to play with. I have a Ruger No. 1-B in 218 Bee, but it's gonna stay in the box as long as I can stand it. Cooper, Dakota and Kimber made some nice rifles in the small calibers, and CZ has made the 527 in several of the small calibers. I have been having fun with the K-Hornet in a couple of Anschutz HB Classics for the past year or so. From an objective point of view, the Fireball or a 222 Rem would be the best really small calibers IMO.

For target backers, you will never find anything better than Coroplast, which is the plastic corogated board that cheap signs are made from. Check with your friendly local sign shop, especially during election time. Many times they have scrap generated from sign making boo-boos. Even if you have to buy it, it's pretty inexpensive stuff.

Good luck with the small caliber stuff. Be sure to let us know how it worked out.
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I hae been checking and have found brass and complete ammo both readily available on line. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/65136-5.html and http://www.championshooters.com/store/home.php?cat=315

It's not cheap but it is cheaper than 220 Swift. It would be much cheaper to load than 220 Swift (1/2 as much powder and small rifle primers).

I am shooting at a local range. The wood target backing is what they have set up. They don't want members to set up their own. So I am stuck with that.
 
If you are going the Bee route, my recommendation would be to buy brass, dies, etc, and load your own from the beginning. Just whatever winds your clock, though. The Bee is a fun little cartridge. My 1st CF rifle, almost 50 yrs ago, was a Winchester model 43 in 218 Bee. That rifle is what got me hooked on accuracy shooting. Specifically, I managed to shoot a sparrow hawk in the head at 175 yds ( yea, lots o' luck involved in that shot). Sold that rifle later on to get some performance parts for my racing go-kart. Wish I had kept the rifle now. I've been trying to find another good example, but so far all that I've purchased turned out to have pretty badly pitted barrels & were returned. I'm curious as to what rifle you are considering in 218 Bee.

On the target backers again, you might talk to the range management people & see if they are willing to try something different. Show them how the wooden backer makes the bullets blow up & destroy any discernable group.
 
what you want

If a 218 is what you want then go for it. I have a SAKO 22 hornet that I am very happy with and it is the right gun for some jobs. I have 4 223s, but some times I just want the mild recoil of the hornet. The lighter 40 grain ballistic tip bullets are giving me sub MOA with Lil'gun at 100 yards.
 
Something I do when shooting groups is to hang a small target frame made of 1x2's over the top of the range's frames, and use cardboard, coroplast, or foamcore to fasten the targets to.

I'm sure not a carpenter, so if I can stick that frame together anyone should be able to. It's just a couple of 24" vertical 1x2's about 23 or 24 inches apart with 1x2 horizontal pieces at top and bottom. The current one has the 1x2's doubled up on the top, bottom, and sides because it's a little sturdier that way, so 2x2's could be used if you can find straight ones. The actual target carrier holder is aluminum channel from a hardware store screwed to the verticals so that cardboard or whatever can be slipped down into it. There's a horizontal piece of channel that is about 6" above the bottom of the frame and two verticals on the edges so that the target carrier can be easily replaced with it gets shot up. The channel is just screwed to the 1x2 frame. This frame has a couple of pieces of aluminum strap bent into an upside down U shape fastened to the back of it to slip over the top of the range's target frame. It's easy to pack along and carry and doesn't flap around when it's in use.

I've never had any objections to this being used because it keeps the targets away from the ranges upper and lower backer supports and doesn't permanently change their frames. If they're really sticklers you might want to ask beforehand though.
 
Slowshot said:
Recently, I have noticed several Martini rifles chambered in 218 Bee. I am interested in what kind of accuracy you have gotten with this cartridge and with what action. As I mentioned elsewhere, my large action Martini was chambered as a 218 Bee by Bill Sukalle and later the chamber was sleeved to 22LR. Now I am a bit sorry that was done.

Currently, I am learning load development with my Ruger No. 1. I am finding the 220 Swift cartridge that it is chambered for to be a bit much. Yesterday, with 40 gr. bullets pushed by 38.5 gr of IMR 4064, I fired three rounds at 100 yards and punched a one inch hole through the backboard of the target stand I was using. The backblow of the shreaded wood destroyed the center of my target. That's a bit of overkill for me. It's rather difficult to measure your group size when your bullets are destroying the target and the backboard.

I enjoy hand loading but I am thinking of selling the Ruger to go to a milder caliber, so I am interested in your experiences with the 218 Bee. It uses less than 1/2 the powder of the 220 Swift and is reported to be quite accurate out to 150-200 yards. None of the ranges near me have more than 200 yards available anyhow.

I would rather not go to the more expensive cartridges such as the the 22 PPC or the 6mm PPC. The cost of brass alone seems a bit much to me.
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The Bee has been my hunting companion for the last 25 years and is my choice for hunting Coyotes,Cats, Fox. My rifle is a Martini Cadet chambered NOW for the Mashburn Bee and will do anything that the 222 will do. With 16.5gr IMR 4227 and the 40gr Vmaz it does 3300fps or loaded down to about 2400 fps. Brass is aqvailable from Lester Bruno for about 35 cents each. this rifle has an "APEX" barrel put on by Sam May and will shoot about .400 @ 100 which is plenty good enough for Fur. Go for it and have fun!
Clarence
 
Disability Issues

As to different rifles that I could shoot, there is one set of limitation I have to work with. That is the fact that my right arm and hand have been partially paralysed since birth. I have no independent finger motion in my right hand. I cannot turn my right hand palm up. I cannot completely straighten my right arm and I have limited strength throughout my right side. I cannot operate a bolt action or hold up a rifle with my right hand.

This is why my three rifles include one left hand bolt action and two falling block actions. A Ruger No. 1B 218 Bee rifle or a Martini 218 Bee appear to be my best chances for rifles in that cartridge. The chances of finding a left handed bolt action 218 Bee are miniscule. I might be interested in a lever action 218 Bee. I've never fired a lever action rifle.

Oh, don't think I want you to feel sorry for me. I have had a good life. I had a successful career and I have raised two fine sons, while building and riding specially equipped motorcycles and playing Dobro and Steel Guitar.

You can find me on YouTube as "Lapsteelguy" and on disabledriders.com as "Don".

Rifles, pistols, shooting and handloading is just my latest obsession. At 62, I needed a new obsession to keep the blood moving. Fortunately, I met an experienced shooter and hand loader (Kimberly) to help me get started. She is constantly dismayed at how fast I make decisions on equipment but I feel I have about ten years to learn and experience all I can regarding guns and ammo.
 
They made a lever action Bee once..........

and it didn't do worth a darn. Then, somebody got the bright idea that MORE people needed to see why it wasn't worth a darn, so Browning re-issued it, it still wasn't worth a darn, unless you just HAD to have a look-alike!! If you stick with a Bee or .222, you'll probably find there are less complaints. I don't know of the quality of Bee brass; even though it may use a bit more powder, you may find the .222 more to your liking, in whichever action you choose. Good Luck. :)
 
Don, there is a real nice looking Ruger No. 1-B in 218 Bee on GunBroker right now, and a LH Cooper on GunsAmerica. Take a look (Don't do it if you don't really want to buy. Like taking a test drive in a new car!). The quality of the Winchester brass is the same as other Winchester brass, which is pretty good. Let us know what you do & how it works out.
 
I have an original Wichester Model 43 in .218 Bee. Several years ago I refinished the stock in an old English hand rubbed oil finish and had a friend checker the palm swell and forend just like the original deluxe model. The rifle is a thing of beauty and I would never sell it. I shot my first groundhog with this rifle and it sat in my gun safe for decades. This is a fun little rifle and a fun little cartridge. I would love to see CZ come out with a chambering.

Lou Baccino
 
That would be nice, Lou, but it's probably doubtful that they would since they already do a 221 FB which is fairly close & a "modern" round. Keep the bore on your Model 43 oiled. I think a problem is that folks use modern borecleaners, such as Shooter's Choice, to clean CM barrels, not realizing that those cleaners contain water. So, if you don't follow your barrel cleaning with an oiled patch or 2 through the bore, you can instantly pit the bore, perhaps ruining the barrel. I used SC-7 for several years before someone pointed out that it contained water. Luckily, I had only used it on SS barrels, so no harm done.
 
Bore solvent

Joe Entrekin said:
That would be nice, Lou, but it's probably doubtful that they would since they already do a 221 FB which is fairly close & a "modern" round. Keep the bore on your Model 43 oiled. I think a problem is that folks use modern borecleaners, such as Shooter's Choice, to clean CM barrels, not realizing that those cleaners contain water. So, if you don't follow your barrel cleaning with an oiled patch or 2 through the bore, you can instantly pit the bore, perhaps ruining the barrel. I used SC-7 for several years before someone pointed out that it contained water. Luckily, I had only used it on SS barrels, so no harm done.
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Thanks Joe.
I always swab my cleaned bores with Lock EEze before allowing them to dry muzzle down. I guess you're right about CZ not coming out with a Bee due to the 221 FB, which is a better cartridge; might have to look into one. I had my hands on a Cooper chambered in .218 Bee several years ago at the Harrisburg, PA Sportsmans Show. It was a beautiful rifle but so is that little CZ.

Lou Baccino
 
Joe Entrekin said:
Don, there is a real nice looking Ruger No. 1-B in 218 Bee on GunBroker right now, and a LH Cooper on GunsAmerica. Take a look (Don't do it if you don't really want to buy. Like taking a test drive in a new car!). The quality of the Winchester brass is the same as other Winchester brass, which is pretty good. Let us know what you do & how it works out.
Click to expand...

I checked out the Ruger. It is precisely what I am looking for. The only problem is ready cash. So, I have listed my Ruger No. 1 220 Swift on Gunbroker, with all of my brass, primers and reloading equipment. If it sells before the 218 Bee does, then I am in business. If any BRC Forum member is interested in a Ruger No. 1 220 Swift, check out my ad and get back to me on this site. I am ready to deal. As long as I don't take a big loss, I am very interested.

I am retired and supporting three people on my retirement so a Cooper is a bit outside my price range. I really need to make the deal an equal trade.
 
Maybe I was Hasty

What a difference spending a week or two indoors, due to an inner ear infection can do for your outlook.

Today, I went back to the range with the Ruger No. 1 .220 Swift and fired 20 rounds each of three different loads. You can well imagine my surprise and joy when the same load that destroyed a wooden backstop the last time I shot, gave me a best five shot edge to edge group of .88 at 100 yards shooting off a wooden bench with my Harris Bipod and a rear bag.

One difference was it was not raining today and the backstops were dry. As I described, the last day out, it rained the entire day and the backstops were soaked like sponges. Kimberly suggested hydro-shock was responsible for my previous day's one shot 1" groups.

I believe I could have averaged less than 1" with that best load of the day if I could just stop flinching each time the guy next to me with his .308 muzzle break equipped rifle lit one off. Several groups were quite tight for three or four hits until I lost it with a huge flinch flier. Still early results are certainly encouraging.

Next Tuesday, I will be trying some Berger 55 gr. match grade target bullets and VihtaVuori N160 powder. That is what the Lyman guys got their best results with. It is a slow burning powder that gives much slower velocities. We'll see if it is worth the extra price.


Another change I have made is in my cleaning regime. I may have been over cleaning my rifle. Today, after each 20 rounds, I ran three wet patches, followed by three dry patches through the barrel. I didn't seem to need fouling rounds each time I changed loads with this method. My best groups were with the last 40 rounds.

So, I have pulled the Ruger off Gunbroker and swear I will give it at least one summer of shooting before I even think of letting it go.
 
bee brass

I tried to get 218 brass during the shortage last year with no success. Finally I did find some leftovers at a local shop and bought that at what I thought was an inflated price. Shortly after, I ran into two bags of new 218 brass at the Cabella's in Hartford, CT. Now it seems I run into it everywhere I go!

Prices have not come down, but at least we can get brass. I think the only run it every now & then, so you have to get it when you can. If all else fails, reform it from 25-20 or 32-20 brass.

Regards, Ron
 
I've owned a Win 43 in .218 since 1958.It was my go-to turkey and groundhog rifle for many years.
It will consistently put 3 shots in an inch at 100 yards,using 50 gr bullets and 14.5 gr of IMR 4198.
This is an excellent caliber when shooting in an area where the muzzle blast of a Swift will get the local folks in an uproar.
I haven't shot it much in recent years as I have 2 Swifts and a .223.
If anybody needs any new/old stock Winchester .218 brass,I have a couple hundred cases I'd sell.
 
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