1st post: What's your favorite neck sizing die and why?

G

gavingear

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Hello all- My name is Gavin Gear, and I run the website www.ultimatereloader.com (free HD reloading videos and info).

I'm new to this forum, and one of my primary interests is accurate rifle shooting.

So, I thought I would get your opinions on neck sizing dies for 30-06. I have a Savage 116 series rifle that i've shot as good as a .319" 3 shot group with, and I'm wanting to see how far I can push the accuracy envelope!

Here's some more info about this rifle and reloading for it:
http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21677&PN=1

Currently, I'm using Lee and Redding standard die sets with full-length sizing dies. Next, I'd like to try neck-only sizing to see if that helps to shrink the groups at all.

Thanks!
Gavin
 
Do yourself a great favor, send three fired cases form your rifle to Neal Jones and have him make a sizing die from your brass. This will give you the best bang for the buck.

http://www.neiljones.com/
 
I have more than a few of his dies. It is not hard to forget this detail. Thank you for the reminder. When I think about these dies, I best remember the trouble with the brass looking screws. Neil wife sent me a bunch at no charge years ago, now the problem is finding the darn things when I need one. :D

I think I need to add, that all my dies from Neil are for wildcat chambers. I use standard off the shelf dies for my SAMMI chambered rifle. I still have a few of those around (I think).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gavin ...

gavingear said:
Hello all- My name is Gavin Gear, and I run the website www.ultimatereloader.com (free HD reloading videos and info).

I'm new to this forum, and one of my primary interests is accurate rifle shooting.

So, I thought I would get your opinions on neck sizing dies for 30-06. I have a Savage 116 series rifle that i've shot as good as a .319" 3 shot group with, and I'm wanting to see how far I can push the accuracy envelope!

Here's some more info about this rifle and reloading for it:
http://forums.handloads.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21677&PN=1

Currently, I'm using Lee and Redding standard die sets with full-length sizing dies. Next, I'd like to try neck-only sizing to see if that helps to shrink the groups at all.

Thanks!
Gavin
Click to expand...

Neck-only sizing is pretty much old hat. There are a few folk who still practice that voodoo but the current trend in benchrest is full length sizing each and every time with a bushing incorporated into the die to adjust neck tension. The Redding Type S - Full Length Resizing / Bushing Die is something you might want to consider. :)
 
I guess some will throw rocks at me but I like the Redding bushing dies with the Micro tops.

Very easy and fast to use. I use them for all my precision rifles.

For sure Neil Jones dies are equal.

For my 6 PPC rifles I have Neil's dies, custom dies, Wilson dies and I still use the Redding dies with the micro tops. The way I shoot the dies are not the significant error factor. (On a good day most of my 6 PPC will agg under 0.150.)

With the Redding dies I can load fast and still have time to watch the wind.
 
For a reasonable cost...

gavingear said:
Hello all- My name is Gavin Gear, and I run the website www.ultimatereloader.com (free HD reloading videos and info).

I'm new to this forum, and one of my primary interests is accurate rifle shooting.

So, I thought I would get your opinions on neck sizing dies for 30-06. I have a Savage 116 series rifle that i've shot as good as a .319" 3 shot group with, and I'm wanting to see how far I can push the accuracy envelope!

Currently, I'm using Lee and Redding standard die sets with full-length sizing dies. Next, I'd like to try neck-only sizing to see if that helps to shrink the groups at all.

Thanks!
Gavin
Click to expand...

For a very reasonable cost try the Lee collet die set for your rifle. I see no need for an expensive custom die set for basically a factory rifle. I doubt if you'd see much improvement. But for about $39, I think it would be worth the experiment to see if the Lee collet set would give maybe a tad tighter group consistently. Be advised, you will have to full length resize your brass about every fifth loading.

For a REAL improvement in accuracy, you'll have to move up to a custom barrel. However, you will have to think hard what your goal is with this rifle. If it is occasional target shooting coupled with hunting, I would advise to leave well enough alone and enjoy your fine performing rifle as is. But...if you are really drawn to the stiff field of benchrest competition, then a good used benchrest rifle is in order; not expensive factory rifle modifications that in the end will prove disappointing and at great cost.

Good luck,
virg
 
abintx said:
Neck-only sizing is pretty much old hat. There are a few folk who still practice that voodoo but the current trend in benchrest is full length sizing each and every time with a bushing incorporated into the die to adjust neck tension. The Redding Type S - Full Length Resizing / Bushing Die is something you might want to consider. :)
Click to expand...

Neck sizing only is "Voodoo?" Tell that to about forty percent of the top benchrest shooters who still practice it. In the end...it's the BARREL, BULLET, AND SHOOTER who wins the match, not some secret reloading technique.

virg
 
Another opinion,


Without proper dies NO RIFLE ON GOD'S EARTH can shoot to its potential, and unless you've got fitted dies then neck-sizing-only is the next best thing.

I prefer Wilson-style hand dies for this.

al
 
Gavin,

Looks like you are shooting with standard chambers, so I'm basing my views on that.

I shoot several belly disciplines with non neck turn chambers & I have found that a properly adjusted Lee collet die causes the least disruption to a fired case of all the setups I've used.

I believe the issue with such chambers is that there is somewhat more neck expansion than on a benchrest standard of neck. Even when set up with the bush floating to perfection, bushing dies are limited in how much they can size down in a single pass - and it's generally less than you need. Taking more than one pass with progressively smaller bushes isn't a recipe for precision runout - at least it wasn't in my case.

Additionally, there isn't a whole lot of use neck turning brass for standard chambers. All you do is make the expansion gap bigger & I am not convinced that in that environment there's a heck of a lot of neck tension consistency to be gained.

Do a search for collet or Lee back a year or thereabouts & you'll find a thread where John Valentine explains how he sets up Lee collet dies. It is absolutely the last word on how to get the best out of that piece of equipment & well worth the time it will take to find.

John
 
I have a blue steel Savage 30-06 very similar to yours. This rifle is factory issue except for a SharpShooter trigger. It will sometimes shoot a very tight three shot group @ 100 yards. A couple of years ago after working up a load I gave it a try with Berger Match bullets. Best agg average I got for five five shot groups was a little over 1.25 inches. Several times it shot three shots under 1/2. This was done shooting off a concrete bench using premium quality front and rear BR rest and bags with wind flags.

Bedding in the plastic stock is one error issue. The second error issue was the torque from the 1-10 twist with such a light rifle. And the third issue was the way the rifle moved on the bags. I shot the "pin position" with this rifle on the bench.

I install a wood block 1" X 3" X 6" under the front of the forearm of the stock. With this the rifle fit my BR front rest with the 3" Edgewood bag. The block made a different. The rifle was much smoother on the bags and torque was better controlled. Five shot groups went down to just under 1".

I found that several 150 gr commercial bullets shot just as good as 30 cal match bullets.

While I was working with this rifle I used both RCBS dies and Redding Dies. The Redding Dies were the bushing neck dies for sizing. Seating and sizing dies both had the Micro tops. While seating depth on the bullet was critical I saw no difference between neck sizing with the expensive dies and FL sizing with the cheaper dies. This is common with 1" groups. When groups get below 1/2" you will usually start to see the differences show up.

The chamber was too long to load with the bullets into the lands on this barrel so neck tension was an issue. Keeping it the same case to case is the issue.

In working up loads I often use three shot groups. But to understand how the barrel and rifle is going to shoot several five shot groups are need. With my light barrel I found that I could shot three shots Bang, 1 minute wait, Bang, 2 minute wait and bang. After that the barrel was hot and the POI would usually move high to the right. For five shot groups I had to wait 10 minutes for shots 4 and 5 to get better groups.

I used my standard BR cleaning process with is Koil and JB bore paste. After cleaning I used a single shot before shooting a new group.

As this rifle is used for deer I did my final load work up based on a first shot accuracy from a cold bore. This was done at 90 + degrees in SE Florida. I rechecked the zero in Tennessee at about 20 Degrees and found the Point Of Impact, POI, at 100 yards had shifted about 2 inches. Temperature was a critical factor! Since then I have learned that some powders are much more sensitive to temperature change than others. I suspect the temperature change of the rifle also played a part.

As you should have noted from the above there are many issues other than the dies that need to be addressed.
 
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