Wind Probe/Indicator

Chism G said:
A Turbulence Story: ...
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About that mouse...We (well, you) take planes because part of their design involves aerodynamic lift. Defying gravity over time. A long time. In fact, that's kinda the whole purpose of them.

Bullets just succumb to gravity without paying much attention to lift. Just a little, as an accident of needing twist. Wind drift with bullets, we are told, is a function of drag, as the nose re-orients to the center pressure. Now, aside from the element of mirage, I don't quite see how turbulence affects a bullet all that much.

Here's the mouse part. I remember shooting Match 1, 8:00am, Charlotte, 300 yard SER championships. If you put the crosshairs on the mothball line, simultaneously top & side, it was amazing to watch them move. Not much, but from inside to outside of the line. Oddly enough, shot dispersion correlated to that movement, but magnified. So, I found if I waited with a shot until they finished moving (it was usually a pattern), I didn't get unpleasant surprises.

I have no idea if this means anything or not.
 
Back to Glenn's opening post.

Chism G said:
I recently came into possession of a device/ gadget that looks like a wind indicator. Its called, "IBALL" Custom Benchrest by Barry Edgley. It came with no instructions. I was able to figure out how to to assemble it and set it up at the Range. I set up one of my wind flags to make a comparison of the sensitivity. I experimented with the balance adjustment in an attempt to get the device to indicate wind currents. We had light winds today, 5-10mph. There must be another part that goes with this probe ,that I'm missing. I had to get out my 150mph leaf blower when I got back home to make it indicate. I am not a big fan of probes. I"m Still struggling with the traditional flag design. This indicator caught my eye for some reason. So I decided to see if it would help improve my wind reading skills.

First thing I noticed was,it seems slow to respond in a side by side comparison with my Graham flags. I could not adjust it to keep up with my wind flags. What advice/opinions can some of the wind flag experts give that will convince me to keep this device in my wind flag box.






Glenn, we got a little off subject during this discussion. Sorry 'bout that. :eek: :(

Your original post concerned a device/gadget you had come into possession of that you said, "looked like a wind indicator." You also mentioned Wind Probe in the same breath. :eek: You further stated that you were not a fan of probes and that you were still struggling with traditional flag design. I think I can help you my friend. :)

First of all, the device/gadget you show in your first post is certainly not a wind probe. :mad: I spent many years developing the genuine Beggs Wind Probe and that thing isn't even a crude attempt. I'll say no more. :rolleyes: Maybe I've already said too much but you're a friend and I don't want to see you wasting your time with that thing. :mad:

As many of you know, I'm retired and no longer produce the Beggs Wind Probe in significant numbers. I still have components on hand and put one together once in a while for a friend but for the most part I'm a lazy old man enjoying retirement immensely. :)

A while back, Dan Killough, chief honcho at American Rimfire Association called asking my permission to start building Wind Probes. I said, "Just get right after it as long as you don't call it a Beggs Wind Probe because they are available only from me in very limited quantity." I have great confidence in and highest regards for Dan Killough. I'm sure anything he produces and sells will be good quality but I have not examined and tested the probes he is building. I believe he calls them, 'The Red Probe.'

Anyway, back to how I think I can help my friend, Glenn Chism. :) Glenn, you've come a long way in this obsession we call benchrest and have made excellent progress while having a great time making lots of new friends. I started down the same road in 1987 so I know exactly where you're coming from. I wish I could have started much sooner before I got so darned old and lost my competitive spirit but a man can only do justice to one serious endeavor at a time. Although I no longer shoot in matches, I'm still very much involved in research, developement, teaching and coaching. I've learned a thing or two during my twenty-six years of involvement with extreme rifle accuracy. Now that the match season is winding down and fall will soon be upon us, I hope you can load up and drive out to Odessa/Midland for a visit. I'll bet I can show you some things you didn't know; especially about reading the wind. :p

Later,

Gene Beggs
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Gene Beggs said:
Chism G said:
I recently came into possession of a device/ gadget that looks like a wind indicator. Its called, "IBALL" Custom Benchrest by Barry Edgley. It came with no instructions. I was able to figure out how to to assemble it and set it up at the Range. I set up one of my wind flags to make a comparison of the sensitivity. I experimented with the balance adjustment in an attempt to get the device to indicate wind currents. We had light winds today, 5-10mph. There must be another part that goes with this probe ,that I'm missing. I had to get out my 150mph leaf blower when I got back home to make it indicate. I am not a big fan of probes. I"m Still struggling with the traditional flag design. This indicator caught my eye for some reason. So I decided to see if it would help improve my wind reading skills.

First thing I noticed was,it seems slow to respond in a side by side comparison with my Graham flags. I could not adjust it to keep up with my wind flags. What advice/opinions can some of the wind flag experts give that will convince me to keep this device in my wind flag box.






Glenn, we got a little off subject during this discussion. Sorry 'bout that. :eek: :(

Your original post concerned a device/gadget you had come into possession of that you said, "looked like a wind indicator." You also mentioned Wind Probe in the same breath. :eek: You further stated that you were not a fan of probes and that you were still struggling with traditional flag design. I think I can help you my friend. :)

First of all, the device/gadget you show in your first post is certainly not a wind probe. :mad: I spent many years developing the genuine Beggs Wind Probe and that thing isn't even a crude attempt. I'll say no more. :rolleyes: Maybe I've already said too much but you're a friend and I don't want to see you wasting your time with that thing. :mad:

As many of you know, I'm retired and no longer produce the Beggs Wind Probe in significant numbers. I still have components on hand and put one together once in a while for a friend but for the most part I'm a lazy old man enjoying retirement immensely. :)

A while back, Dan Killough, chief honcho at American Rimfire Association called asking my permission to start building Wind Probes. I said, "Just get right after it as long as you don't call it a Beggs Wind Probe because they are available only from me in very limited quantity." I have great confidence in and highest regards for Dan Killough. I'm sure anything he produces and sells will be good quality but I have not examined and tested the probes he is building. I believe he calls them, 'The Red Probe.'

Anyway, back to how I think I can help my friend, Glenn Chism. :) Glenn, you've come a long way in this obsession we call benchrest and have made excellent progress while having a great time making lots of new friends. I started down the same road in 1987 so I know exactly where you're coming from. I wish I could have started much sooner before I got so darned old and lost my competitive spirit but a man can only do justice to one serious endeavor at a time. Although I no longer shoot in matches, I'm still very much involved in research, developement, teaching and coaching. I've learned a thing or two during my twenty-six years of involvement with extreme rifle accuracy. Now that the match season is winding down and fall will soon be upon us, I hope you can load up and drive out to Odessa/Midland for a visit. I'll bet I can show you some things you didn't know; especially about reading the wind. :p

Later,

Gene Beggs
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Smart move Gene. Thanks for taking this discussion back to the original question. Thanks for "Pulling My Coat" and I'll leave it at that. It's fun and sometimes informative to have a little internet chat about your favorite hobby.

I may take you up your offer to visit with you. No bets on what you can teach me. I'm a dummy when it comes to reading the wind. I want to know more about "Wake Turbulence"


Take care


Glenn
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Glenn,
What did Barry Edgley tell you? Remember, I have the proper balls for it and other hardware. I don't know how to set them up, but Barry could tell you.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Glenn,
What did Barry Edgley tell you? Remember, I have the proper balls for it and other hardware. I don't know how to set them up, but Barry could tell you.
Click to expand...


Got the instructions. Put it together. Played with it. I'll do more testing when I get to the range.




Glenn
 
Chism G said:
Gene Beggs said:
Smart move Gene. Thanks for taking this discussion back to the original question. Thanks for "Pulling My Coat" and I'll leave it at that. It's fun and sometimes informative to have a little internet chat about your favorite hobby. I may take you up on your offer to visit with you. No bets on what you can teach me. I'm a dummy when it comes to reading the wind. I want to know more about "Wake Turbulence"

Take care

Glenn
Click to expand...




Glenn, sorry if my post came across as "Pulling your coat." I didn't mean it that way at all and I'm sorry if I offended you or Barry Edgley. It's just that when I saw the photo, many of the things I tried and abandoned during the early years of developement stood out like a sore thumb. I've got an idea ! ;)

Why don't you and Barry join up and make a trip out to Odessa? :p I don't remember meeting Barry and I haven't seen you in a while. We will have some fun, do a little shooting in the tunnel and accomplish more in a couple of days than we could in a year of visiting at the matches. What do you say?

Gene Beggs
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Gene Beggs said:
Chism G said:
Glenn, sorry if my post came across as "Pulling your coat." I didn't mean it that way at all and I'm sorry if I offended you or Barry Edgley. It's just that when I saw the photo, many of the things I tried and abandoned during the early years of developement stood out like a sore thumb. I've got an idea ! ;)

Why don't you and Barry join up and make a trip out to Odessa? :p I don't remember meeting Barry and I haven't seen you in a while. We will have some fun, do a little shooting in the tunnel and accomplish more in a couple of days than we could in a year of visiting at the matches. What do you say?

Gene Beggs
Click to expand...



Gene,my Comment was actually a compliment,in the context given. My coat needs to be pulled ocasionally. Sometimes I walk around with eyes shut.:)

Thanks for your input on the subject of Wind Flags. Don't be surprised if I show up in Odessa,ready for some schooling. I've got to get down to the Deer Lease pretty soon,to fix a few things. I'll put this on my list of things to do.


Glenn
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Chism G said:
Gene Beggs said:
Gene,my Comment was actually a compliment,in the context given. My coat needs to be pulled ocasionally. Sometimes I walk around with eyes shut.:)

Thanks for your input on the subject of Wind Flags. Don't be surprised if I show up in Odessa,ready for some schooling. I've got to get down to the Deer Lease pretty soon,to fix a few things. I'll put this on my list of things to do.


Glenn
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Sounds good Glenn, I'll be looking forward to it. You too Barry. I would love to visit with you.

Later,

Gene Beggs
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Everyone,

I apologize for trying to take this thread away from the original poster's intention. I will ask my questions about turbulence in a separate thread.

Apologies to all.

Dennis
 
DeltaBravo said:
Everyone,

I apologize for trying to take this thread away from the original poster's intention. I will ask my questions about turbulence in a separate thread.

Apologies to all.

Dennis
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No need to apologize Dennis. I bear some responsibility for getting away from the original question. We start with Wind Flags. progress to food and restaurants,and end up talking about a bad airplane trip. Its the nature of Internet forum discussions. It's almost impossible to resist getting off track. I thought your question about "Wake Turbulence" was valid. I don't know the answer. I was thinking about starting a new thread on that vey subject,just for the sake of discussion.


Glenn
 
Hi people I know this is a very old thread
but Their is nothing about the placement of the probes on the range
thanks
 
Anywhere you choose. Find a place that maybe has some tricky wind like by a berm or an opening in the trees. Some ranges you may not need 2
 
Main thing is getting enough info but not too much. I use 5 flags at 200 and 4 or 5 at 100 and may or may not put a wind probe up according to the situation. But you can gather so much info that you'll never pull the trigger
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Main thing is getting enough info but not too much. I use 5 flags at 200 and 4 or 5 at 100 and may or may not put a wind probe up according to the situation. But you can gather so much info that you'll never pull the trigger
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Thank you DUSTY

I shoot .22 BR at a pistol club
With 8 foot concrete walls both sides
Its like shooting in a bowl :confused:
 
Gene Beggs said:
If you tune the rifle when temp is 90 degrees and preload for the first match tomorrow morning when temp is 70 degrees, you will be completely out of tune when you go to the line. Unless you have a tuner installed, you're stuck with twenty rounds that are loaded about .6 grains too light.
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Mr. Beggs, on another thread ( http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?86290-Load-Tuning-for-temperature&p=706031&highlight=#post706031 ), I read the following quote that was attributed to you:

If you tune with the powder charge, decrease velocity 30 fps for each five degree increase in temperature and vice versa. With most powders, N133 being the most common, .3 grain equals 30 fps. With most Culver type measures, one full number equals .6 grains. For example, if your favorite load is 54 clicks, and your rifle is perfectly in tune for the first match of the day when temp is 60 degrees, you will decrease the load to 53.5 clicks when temp reaches 65 degrees, 53 clicks at 70 degrees and so on.​

That indented quote basically says that a 5 degree temp change requires a .3 gr change in powder; however, the quote at the top says a 20 degree temp change requires a .6 gr change in powder. Can you clarify the difference between the two quotes?
 
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