Win mod 70 project

H

harro

New member
G'day

I have a question to all of you knowledgable centerfire guys.
For quite a few years now I have been shooting mainly rimfire at my local club in a very informal local comp.My young son has been shooting with me and this is the main reason I have shot rimfire.I don't come from a range shooting background , I grew up hunting and the only time you ever shot at paper was when you were sighting in your rifle.A move to town and a young family has ment that I haven't been hunting for ages.
Forgive my long introduction but I thought I should explain my shooting experience.
My question is that now my son is old enough to shoot centerfire ,again in a very informal F class type fun comp out to 500 yrds , I need a rifle.
In my gun cabinet is a Win mod 70 243 (it is not a pre 64) this rifle was for years my hunting rifle and has seen a bit of use.The barrel although good enough for hunting ,will not group well enough to shoot in this comp.My question then is should I rebarrel it, and spend money on making it shoot or am I waisting my time on a Winchester action( I don't see many mentions about Win 70 on this forum)are they a good hunting action but not a target action, has anyone customised there mod 70 and can they give me some advice.

Thankyou for your time

harro
 
Harro:

I personally have little experience with Winchester actions.

I would recommend prior to investing time and money in having action trued, action bedded, and rebarreling, to throughly clean barrel bore.

A good one piece rod, bore brushes, and properly sized cotton cleaning patches, solvents to remove powder fouling, also copper, and last but not least carbon.

Check tightness on action and scope base screws, and go to the range.

You may be surprized just how well your old hunting rifle might shoot with a clean bore and a little maintenance.

Lapua cases are available and the only brass to use in my humble opinion, but that could wait for another day.

Old Cob
 
A Winchester will shoot just as well as any other action, you see more mention of Remington, Savage, etc. because they are a round tubed receiver and are easier for gunsmiths to set up to true. For many years the model 70 action was the "long range" action choice, it has only been in the last 25 years or so that the change has been to the Remingtons and similar action. All things considered from a gunsmiths standpoint it is a lot less work to true a round receivered action than it is a model 70 because of the difference in action design.

There are still a great many of the older long range shooters who prefer the model 70 action because of the larger bedding surface and integral recoil lug. In Otteson's book "The Bolt Action" he points out that the model 70 is actually a stiffer action than the Remington 700 style action. His book is concerned with the design analysis of bolt actions is written from a technical viewpoint rather than an opinion viewpoint.

I am sure that you will get many comments with differing opinions and I will put on my fire-proof suit to make the following statement - I personally have had more good "out of the box" shooting model 70's than I have 700's.

One thing that is critically important to the accuracy of the model 70 is to "NOT" tighten the center action screw, just tighten it until you start to feel resistance and quit there, if it is tightened more you can bet your accuracy will suffer. I have improved the accuracy of many model 70's simply by backing out the center action screw to relieve tension on the action.

You may do well to take the advice from P Corncob Bob - it is surprising just how well some hunting rifles will shoot with just a little work and maintenance.

drover
 
Win mdl 70

Very true the mdl 70 is a good action but a bit harder to true. A number of winning Palma rifles that I know of were mdl 70's. You may want to stop and add it up though. In the US you are realy better served by just buying a "custom" action as by the time you pay to true it right you have normally exedeed any savings. Perhaps if the stock you have will work it may make sense though.
 
I would agree with the other posters that suggest that you not give up too soon on your model 70. How do you clean it? What sort of load do you shoot, and how did you work it up? Have you looked at the bedding. (The center screw advice was right on point.) What is the trigger pull? About how many rounds do you estimate have been fired? What scope is on it? These answers will give us a better Idea of your situation. A number of years ago, a fellow asked me to shoot his pre 64 model 70s, a .270, and a 30-06. He had Federal ammo, the regular red and white box stuff, and I managed 1/2" three shot groups from both. I was impressed. Currently, I have a post 64 model 70, chambered in .222, that will group five shots under 1/2" with handloads, this with a sporter weight barrel. The trigger was worked over by a good smith before I got it. It has a pound and a quarter pull, lighter than I would recommend for a game rifle, but OK for varmint rig, and shooting off the bench.
 
drover said:
A Winchester will shoot just as well as any other action, you see more mention of Remington, Savage, etc. because they are a round tubed receiver and are easier for gunsmiths to set up to true. For many years the model 70 action was the "long range" action choice, it has only been in the last 25 years or so that the change has been to the Remingtons and similar action. All things considered from a gunsmiths standpoint it is a lot less work to true a round receivered action than it is a model 70 because of the difference in action design.

There are still a great many of the older long range shooters who prefer the model 70 action because of the larger bedding surface and integral recoil lug. In Otteson's book "The Bolt Action" he points out that the model 70 is actually a stiffer action than the Remington 700 style action. His book is concerned with the design analysis of bolt actions is written from a technical viewpoint rather than an opinion viewpoint.

I am sure that you will get many comments with differing opinions and I will put on my fire-proof suit to make the following statement - I personally have had more good "out of the box" shooting model 70's than I have 700's.

One thing that is critically important to the accuracy of the model 70 is to "NOT" tighten the center action screw, just tighten it until you start to feel resistance and quit there, if it is tightened more you can bet your accuracy will suffer. I have improved the accuracy of many model 70's simply by backing out the center action screw to relieve tension on the action.

You may do well to take the advice from P Corncob Bob - it is surprising just how well some hunting rifles will shoot with just a little work and maintenance.

drover
Click to expand...

X2 for what drover & Boyd Allen said.

I have a Win. Mod 70 with a factory 24" varmint weight barrel that was manufactured in 1968 that I bought used in 1970. In 1971 I had Brown Precision glass bed it into one of their bench rest stocks and added a Canjar single set 2 ounce trigger in it with a Weaver 6-18 power scope on top. Before I burnt out the barrel it would group 3/8" measured out side to outside 5 shots at 100 yards with 85 grain Searra HPBT Game King bullets with IMR 4350.

With mine I would tighten down the front screw very tight then the middle screw snugged and the screw behind the trigger guard just barely snug.

Up until I had my new rifle built it was by far the most accurate rifle I have ever owned. By the way it is a .243.

"Aim small miss small", :D

gt40

PS: I believe that Canjar is out of business. What a shame I love their set trigger.

Also you might get the action bedded in your stock if it shoots better after you clean the barrel. This should help a great deal more.
 

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G'day

Thanks for the rely's.
I was just sitting at the computer reading them, and my son walked in and asked what I was doing ,so I told him and he had a read.
He turned to me and said, what are you thinking "That 243 is going to be my hunting rifle one day, your not going to change it around are you".
All of my hunting stories ,and the few pictures that I have of my hunting trips have all centered around that rifle.
I think maybe at his young age he might just be smarter than me??
He said he is interested in getting it shooting better, so we will take your guys advice and tune it up a little ,but the old barrel will stay.
So my next question is how do I tell my wife we need a new rifle( maybe a 223 ??) and still be alive to shoot it ??

Thakyou for your time

harro
 
harro said:
G'day

Thanks for the rely's.
I was just sitting at the computer reading them, and my son walked in and asked what I was doing ,so I told him and he had a read.
He turned to me and said, what are you thinking "That 243 is going to be my hunting rifle one day, your not going to change it around are you".
All of my hunting stories ,and the few pictures that I have of my hunting trips have all centered around that rifle.
I think maybe at his young age he might just be smarter than me??
He said he is interested in getting it shooting better, so we will take your guys advice and tune it up a little ,but the old barrel will stay.
So my next question is how do I tell my wife we need a new rifle( maybe a 223 ??) and still be alive to shoot it ??

Thakyou for your time

harro
Click to expand...

For the longest time I bought all my rifles with the same looking stock and since I only left the house with one at a time or inside the rifle case she never new the difference. ;);););) :D

"Aim small miss small", :D

gt40
 
I have not posted on this section before but the M-70 is my favorite, I consider it to be one of the best switch barrel actions out there. Ok, I know I will get a lot of flack for that statement but it is of my opinion and have 3 of them. The original factory Winchester barrels of past years were some of the best and most accurate production barrels, some are highly sought after today and very hard to find.
For the question of should it be rebarreled, I would first JB the bore thoroughly to remove any fowling, inspect the crown and have it re-crowned, this could be the single most important thing to do to retrieve accuracy. If it has not been bedded I would do that too and if it has I would check it to make sure it is still good.
A simple check to perform is clean the bolt locking lugs, use a blue Sharpie and cover the lugs, put the bolt in the rifle, work the bolt to see what contact the lugs have, not a definitive test but will give some idea of what kind of contact you have. The reason is I have one G series push feed M-70 that one lug makes no contact and this action needs to be trued, now if the contact were fairly uniform I would just lap the lugs and square the receiver face, saving a complete truing job. The original Win triggers are one of the best designs ever, fool proof, workable, and can be worked to the 2 pound range very easily and safe.
The down side is after market parts and replacement parts for the old guns.

Good luck….Rick
 
How to convince the wife.

Next time you go to the range, invite her along, but don't get into a shooting match with a woman if you want to keep your ego intact.:D
 
Custom model 70

I have a model 70 that I had rebarreled with a heavy barrel and put in a thumbhole varmint stock. Bartlien barrel, 1-in 10 twist. I can get 3 shots into the same hole at 50 yds. My only peave is the firing pin does not hit the center of the primer
but that doesn't seem to affect performance.
vmaxx
 
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