Wilson seater with micro adjustments - worse than those without?

H

HopeToBe

Guest
With a reference to the previous thread about concentric rounds I found a better solution going from the Wilson seater with the micrometer adjustment to the seater without this installation (the original Wilson micrometer adjustment, not the Sinclair one). Hence the idea hit me that the way the seater is built with the entire plunger being lifted to the appropriate hight by a threaded micrometer adjustment might be an issue, i.e. that it is more optimal not to have this installed? Anyone with a similar experience?

With this in mind I tested two another dies, also 6PPC, where one was the micrometer adjustable one, and another without. The difference was not as significant as with my two seaters, however the one without the micro adjustment did produce more concentric rounds.

Any thoughts?
 
I have [two] Wilson bullet seaters each with the micro adjustable top. One for a 6PPC the other for a 30BR. The run out measured on the bullet just ahead of the case is usually between .0005" to .001" after using each seater, when measured on a Sinclair concentricity gauge. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
abintx said:
I have [two] Wilson bullet seaters each with the micro adjustable top. One for a 6PPC the other for a 30BR. The run out measured on the bullet just ahead of the case is usually between .0005" to .001" after using each seater, when measured on a Sinclair concentricity gauge. :)
Click to expand...

I have the same seaters as you. I have been measuring the concentricity somewhat further down the ogive, which obviously shows me much more runout. Where is the best place to measure runout?
Mark
 
Its not the tops that determine good concentricity, it is how well sized brass brass fits the seater
die interior wall dimensions, tighter fit means better concentricity, near interference fit will
produce sub-.001" concentricity...........Don
 
Wilson seater tops will cause runout. There are a lot of areas in that top that can cause runout.

1. Thread in cap are not perpendicular with the bottom of the cap.
2. Stem not threaded straight
3. Slop between the cap threads and stem threads.
4. Stem and die hole fit.
5. Bullet cone in stem not square.

I went through about five dies and ten tops and stems to make two seater dies that are exact and will load in the .0002 range. Some sets loaded in the .003-.008 range.

All dies are not created equal....


Hovis
 
I also have a custom made die produced by Billy Stevens for my 6PPC and a Harrell's die for my 30BR. Perhaps in combination with the Wilson micro seaters I get the results that I do. But what I get is what I get. I'm happy with .0005" to .001" runout.
 
There is nothing wrong with the simple cap and stem Wilson supplies. Only two parts. It's very simple to use dial calipers to measure from the top of the cap to the end of the stem. And who doesn't have calipers?
 
Wayne Shaw said:
There is nothing wrong with the simple cap and stem Wilson supplies. Only two parts. It's very simple to use dial calipers to measure from the top of the cap to the end of the stem. And who doesn't have calipers?
Click to expand...

Tony Boyer says that he commonly uses the standard Wilson seating die for the 6PPC, that the only thing that he has done to it is polish the stem seating area to make seating more consistent, and uses shims to adjust the precise seating depth. Check out Chapter 12: Bullet Seating [of his new book] for a lot more details. Good stuff!
 
I'm wit' FBrRaANNnScciSSSS on this one....... allaway.....

And furthermore I'll add that the idea that a simple Wilson setup can make crooked ammo by itsownself is ludicrous. :) IMO this is all about fit, so I guess I'm also fully in with Don... (How's it feel guys??? we're gonna' fill the short bus right up! Somebody's gonna' hafta' get out and walk)

As far as plain VS micro??? One is not "better" than the other..... it's like saying a micrometer is "better" than a caliper is "better" than a screw is "better" than an inclined plane is somehow "better" than a lever.....

A simple plain old Wilson die IS "micrometer adjustable"...... I can make one repeat to within a thou anywhere you want it. A "micrometer" is just a screw with marks on it. :rolleyes:




al
 
Bullet Seaters that will seat a bullet to .0003-.0005 tenths runout are not that hard to make.
There really isn't alot wrong with a wilson, except it has more clearance than needed. A
reamer needs purchased that pretty well matches your sized case. The neck can even be stepped matching what is done by your bushing. This will hold the case in great alignment
as the bullet travels into the neck. A common Bullet seater will have a neck .004 -.00+ your
neck as sized. The body can be shortened and take up some slack, but only on the ends and
if your 2nd rifle has a slightly different H.S. you'll need another one. Its not difficult to show that
the runout produced by your 29.95 press die translates to poor groups, but will having .0005
instead of .0015 do the same, maybe, and then maybe only in some barrels. A perfectly matched
seater could total $300.. I have made a few, what I really need is a foolproof mouse trap at
50 yds, that only I can read
 
Al, I did this many times using a very good 222 Bench Gun. Load 5 shells, and with your
thumb, bend a bullet out of alignment on one cartridge. Color that bullet with magic marker
then shoot them . Its easy to find the fliers. This gun did not shoot in the lands and thereby
what ever allignment I created , continued to the target. I built a straightening devise, and
intensionally over straightened some rounds to create an error . This also can be seen, via
the magic marker. This was in a 6ppc, in the lands with 4198, which doesn't need the neck tension. The barrel is not a fix all alignment issues, some yes
 
Just curious about this test. Most bench guns have a freebore diameter about .0005 to .001 over nominal bore diameter.

If the .222 (1) has freebore, and (2) if it is < .001, and (3) if you had bullet significantly out of alignment, as when they are pushed off center, then (4) a round chambered & extracted w/o firing should show scuff marks on the bullet (even without an ejector, which can cause scuff marks even with a perfectly aligned bullet) -- and should be somewhat straightened by the freebore, even if the bullet wasn't jammed into the forcing cone.

Right?
 
I really doub't that the freebore diameter can have much effect, it is only .020-.060 . That length
is insufficient to straighten a round if it doesnt contact the lands. The ends of the lands in a new
barrel are concave, closely matching a bullet. Far more so then after many rounds, where they are convex, and farther apart
 
Ya' lost me there Bob, I missed the part where "29.95 press" meant my thumb.

I stand corrected.

al
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top