Wilson 6ppc seater question

S

stevenorlando

Guest
Hello All!

About a few days ago I posted a question about a Wilson 6ppc seater die. but it was in the midst of all the medication spam and got deleted.

I asked about seating a flat-based bullet using one, and someone responded that you remove the top part and put a bullet through that top hole, then put the plunger in and then hammer.

However, in the Wilson directions it reads not to do that because because this causes excessive wear on the plunger and the bore that guides it.

I don't see how removing it can harm the plunger, and also it is very difficult for me to hold the bullet in place with my fingers while I place the die body over them both the bullet and the case mouth. Also, the case gets stuck in the body after I hammer, and I need a screwdriver to pry it out, that can't be good for the shell head.

Any comments?

Steve
 
well whose brass is this ? turned or unturned ? i was under the impression that even unturned had clearance for bullet seating...so the other question is how big are these bullets ? how thick is your brass....
chamfer the necks"enough" to get a good start.......
a wierd alternative....
lyman m style die to open just the top of the brass to start the bullet.....
maybe your question should be "seating flat based bullets"

mike in co
 
When I use a Wilson style seater, it is with an arbor press, or a reloading press that has something like one built in, along with the regular ram and threaded top. Being right handed, but fairly handy with my left, I pick up a bullet so that it is point up between my right thumb and index finger, and place its base within the chamfer of the case mouth of one of the cases in my loading block that has been sized, primed and charged with powder, usually starting with one at the upper LH corner of the group that I am working with. As the bullet comes in contact with the mouth of the case, I let my fingers slip down a little so that they grip both the bullet and the case mouth securely. At that point I transfer the bullet and case to where the die will be placed over the stack and the bullet seated . While continuing to hold the bullet and case with one hand, I start to slide the die down over the tip of the bullet with the other, and when the die comes into contact with the thumb and finger that were holding case and bullet, I remove them and continue to lower the die. The chamfer in the inside of the case mouth keeps the base of the bullet in place as the die is lowered, and since the tip is trapped in the die, the bullet cannot fall out of place. If you think about it, it is almost exactly the same thing that takes place when you use seat bullets with a threaded die, only the die slides down over the bullet and case, instead of the case and bullet being pushed up into it. Once the die is all the way down, I use whatever means that I have chosen to push the stem and cap down, seating the bullet. After that is done, I pick up the die with one hand, leaving the loaded round standing, and pick it up with the other, and return it to its place in the loading block. The whole operation is much easier and faster to do than write or read.

Having the loaded round stick in the die is a matter of fit that a gunsmith or Wilson should be able to resolve for you by polishing out the die slightly. Do your sized cases stick in the die with no bullet in in the neck? If not, your neck clearance is the problem. Are you neck sizing? If you are, do you have the problem with FL sized cases? In any case, I would have the die fixed, if only for convenience. As to die wear, they are made of the softest of steel, and I would take Wilson's word as to how to properly use them. I presume that You are not using a steel hammer, but either one with a plastic or rawhide face.

Have you checked to make sure that you have enough clearance between your rifle chamber's neck, and that of your loaded rounds?
 
First off, don't use a hammer - ever. A particle of unnoticed hard stuff under the primer could be disastrous.

Boyd's description is how most folks do it. Keep the seater in one hand and don't lay it down until you're done with that batch. Pay particular attention to the last line/question in Boyd's post. The question is of "grave" importance. He asked the question because your cases are sticking in a very much standard seating die indicating that there may be a clearance problem with the loaded round.

As far as the sticking goes, set a sized case on a smooth hard surface, set the seater over it and push down hard. If it sticks in the die such that you have to forcibly pry it out you need to fix it. If it comes out easily, and still sticks when seating a bullet there's not enough clearance in the neck area of the die. Color a case and bullet with a wide tip marking pen and let it dry. Seat the colored bullet in the colored case and hopefully you can see the problem. If you can indeed see the problem, send both the die and colored case/bullet assembly back to Wilson with a brief note. They'll fix it for you. When the die is set over a sized case, the die should come in full contact with the tabletop - without pressing down.

Alternatively, you can just skip all that and send a case, a bullet and the die back to Wilson and ask them to fix it. That wouldn't be much fun but the end result would be the same.

Incidentally, unless you are loading some serious quantities, pulling the stem out shouldn't cause the die to wear such that you would notice over a lifetime. You already said that and I'm agreeing with you.
 
Does the empty case stick in the die with the seater stem removed? Try it with just an empty case, no bullet, no powder, no bullet.

al
 
Thanks all for responding. I spoke to Wilson and they described my situations as problems that shouldn't be and suggested I send the die to them so they can look at it. Since I got the die from someone else, it could be damaged, or even an older model.

Steve
 
Wilson die

stevenorlando said:
someone responded that you remove the top part and put a bullet through that top hole, then put the plunger in and then hammer.
Click to expand...

I believe that was me, but I don't believe I said hammer because I never use a hammer or mallet to seat, either an arbor press or hand pressure, and I do remove the stem because I never read the directions and that was how I was shown. That person supplied the dies when I developed his loads. I made a base to hold the die and with a hole bored under the primer so nothing touches the primer. (The base can be used for removing primers.) I use Forster or Redding competition seating dies and a press otherwise. - nhk
 
stevenorlando said:
Thanks all for responding. I spoke to Wilson and they described my situations as problems that shouldn't be and suggested I send the die to them so they can look at it. Since I got the die from someone else, it could be damaged, or even an older model.

Steve
Click to expand...

Happens all the time. There's no way Wilson can out guess what we're gonna do with our rifles. Fat chamber here, re-formed brass there and somebody ends up with sticky cases. Be sure to send them a fired case and bullet along with the die.
 
admin said:
Happens all the time. There's no way Wilson can out guess what we're gonna do with our rifles. Fat chamber here, re-formed brass there and somebody ends up with sticky cases. Be sure to send them a fired case and bullet along with the die.
Click to expand...


ohhhh ooohhhh ohhhhh
who i sthe "new guy" mr admin???
is this wilburs' son ???
mike in co
 
My Neil Jones die is so precise a fit that I have to allow the top cap to raise up a hair to let air in and brake the vaccum and the case falls right out- pretty amazing. Took me a while to figure it out.
Also I learned that it works best if I allow the top cap/stem to separate slightly from the body (by letting them separate a bit while holding the cap between forefinger and thumb and the die in the other 3 fingers and palm) before placing the die on the bullet and allow them to come together again after the case is engaged which seems to allow the air to escape and also to help the bullet find the seater stem while they are better aligned.
Sounds complicated but you do it naturally after a while just letting the cap slide up and down slightly in your fingers.
Of course like mentioned you may just have a bad fit. If you cover the case with a black sharpie pen and then seat it in the die you may be able to see where it is rubbing and maybe bumping the case an extra 1/2 thou in the sizing die may fix the problem.
 
admin said:
Happens all the time. There's no way Wilson can out guess what we're gonna do with our rifles. Fat chamber here, re-formed brass there and somebody ends up with sticky cases. Be sure to send them a fired case and bullet along with the die.
Click to expand...

When I talked with Bob White on Sat. he told me that for my Ruger M77 6ppc I need an oversize die. He's pretty sure that is the problem.

Steve
 
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