M
maverick
Guest
Shoot so good when fireforming ? I have not found a load for my Dasher yet that shoots better than fireforming load. Thanks for the INfo.... Maverick
One of the reasons virgin brass shoots well is because of the annealing. When you fireform a round that moves a lot of brass (like a Dasher) the case is work hardened immediately with the first firing. With the 30BR, there is a lot of hardening that occurs during the necking up proceedure, but they will still shoot extremely well fireforming. After one or two firings, they're ready to be annealed, though. I anneal every 30BR case I make before ever fireforming it.
When you anneal these cases, make sure and reset your full length and 'bump' dies before you size these cases after the first firing post annealing. If the dies have been set up to 'bump' the shoulder on work hardened brass, the shoulders will be 'bumped' too far back on your annealed cases once you've fired them. This is due to the increased springback of the hardened brass compared to properly annealed brass.
When the shoulders won't 'stay put' where your bump die is set for (on once fired properly annealed cases)....it's time to anneal again. -Al
Bob Kingsbury
New member
That is absolutely true
N
nonliberal
Guest
Thats a good question. I used the same 5 .308 cases 25 times today (neck size only) and also never cleaned the gun today trying out WS2 coated bullets. The accuracy started falling off at group # 23 or shot #115. I wonder if it was the gun getting fouled,the brass getting hard, or me getting tired? Or a combo of all.
M
maverick
Guest
Wow,
This is deep, Gonna have to look at it another way. To prove what i am asking, I shot a IBS Score match today, 100/200, 7-18 mph gust, My first score match. only Drop 4 points... All shots fired was fireformed... See my point that i am asking ?
This is deep, Gonna have to look at it another way. To prove what i am asking, I shot a IBS Score match today, 100/200, 7-18 mph gust, My first score match. only Drop 4 points... All shots fired was fireformed... See my point that i am asking ?
Rick, I use the simple little Meeks gizmo that attaches to a propane torch. Basically, it's a length of copper tubing that is bent into a circle at the far end. The inner 'loop' of the circle has a series of holes drilled into it facing the inside. This 'loop' is placed around the case at the shoulder/body junction and the flame works on this area. The cases are stood upright in about 1/2" of water (a cake pan works great..pretty high tech, right?
). This act as a heat insulator. When the neck/shoulder are is up to annealing temp, the case is simply tipped over into the water as you lift the tool off. This quenches the case and stops the annealing process. For a .473 case head case from BR to full 308 length, my setup takes about 15 seconds of heat application per case to get them where I want 'em. With 1/2" of water, I see little bubbles starting to perc. at the water line about 3-4 seconds before the necks are up to temp. When I got started doing this, I went to a local welding supply house and picked up some Tempil Stik crayon. This melts at predetermined temps...you just put some on the case, heat it up, note the time at which the heat occurs, and then use that as your 'standard' for the rest of the cases. If you change heat sources (from propane to a MAP gas cylinder, for example)...you'll obviously want to 're-zero' to a new standard heating time.
I've also annealed cases on Stan Ware's Ken Light annealer, which is a great tool for doing a large volume of cases. I've also done them in a case holder in a cordless drill held over the propane flame....the big thing is being able to quench the heat and stop the annealing quickly. You can get as tech-y or redneck-y as you want to.
Annealing isn't for every situation. For the 6PPC shooter that fireforms twenty 220R cases twice, then shoots those case in a 100-200 Grand Agg. and tosses 'em away..it's not an issue. But for those whose cases require a lot of moving brass/expanding necks, annealing is a positive step to maintaining consistent neck tension and 'bump' dimension.
I'm off to the gym and then I have an appointment with a paint roller and some freshly sheetrocked walls in my basement family room....
-Al
M
mysticplayer
Guest
I am quite new to annealing and use a very low tech method. I use the 650F templsticks and mark about 1/8" below the neck/shoulder junction. I spin the brass in a socket wrench at the end of an extension. I keep the cases in the same location of a propane flame. Only the neck is in the flame.
When the mark goes poof, into the water with a nice sizzle. Seems to work.
I do find that some cases need a second or two longer the others. Not sure why but it shows up in every batch of brass I anneal.
I thought about just using a timer as was described above but because of this variance, I am going to continue to use the temp stick as my indicator.
Could be technique too????? Just not sure
Be aware that using the 650F, if you leave the case into the flame a few seconds after it flashes off, you can cook your necks. They will have a burnt black stain that will not come off easily with steel wool. The case necks will also easily bent under finger tip pressure - too soft/garbage.
As I said, low tech and not exactly perfect....
Jerry
When the mark goes poof, into the water with a nice sizzle. Seems to work.
I do find that some cases need a second or two longer the others. Not sure why but it shows up in every batch of brass I anneal.
I thought about just using a timer as was described above but because of this variance, I am going to continue to use the temp stick as my indicator.
Could be technique too????? Just not sure
Be aware that using the 650F, if you leave the case into the flame a few seconds after it flashes off, you can cook your necks. They will have a burnt black stain that will not come off easily with steel wool. The case necks will also easily bent under finger tip pressure - too soft/garbage.
As I said, low tech and not exactly perfect....
Jerry
Thanks Al.
.I had almost ordered one of those annealing tips but never found anyone that had used one, was looking for a warm fuzzy first. I have used temp-lac sticks in the past, must have been 20+ years ago for heat treating some projects. Thanks again Al.
Remy, That tip that Al is talking about is available at: (woodchuckden.com) Page 6 of there product catalog, $42 .
Rick
.I had almost ordered one of those annealing tips but never found anyone that had used one, was looking for a warm fuzzy first. I have used temp-lac sticks in the past, must have been 20+ years ago for heat treating some projects. Thanks again Al.
Remy, That tip that Al is talking about is available at: (woodchuckden.com) Page 6 of there product catalog, $42 .
Rick