I have answered a lot of questions concerning how I make the 30-30 agg. I have gone over this in some detail in previous post. The biggest question that remains to this day is "why". I have rarely been to a match where people don't question me on this. There are even a few people who are actually bothered by my caliber choice. Some continue to ask why I put up with the recoil. These are the same people who seem to be bothered by me shooting a 30-30 against their 6PPC. I have never in my life heard anyone ask a hunter class shooter why they put up with the recoil of a 30X47. They just seem to accept that a bullet that has a .0325" larger radius will out score a 6mm bullet. If a 6mm bullet can consistantly get .0325" closer to the center of the target, then it will score equal to a 30 caliber.
Recently at the Rattlesnake, I was asked by one of the most well known shooters in BR, why I put up with the recoil when there is no gain. I told him that I shot the 30-30 because of a dare.
Back in 1994, I had just won the Burnet Gun Club championship with my 6BR. At that time all I owned was two barrels for my 18lb rifle that is now my 13.5lb rifle that I currently use. Those two barrels were 1.35" 6PPC and 6BR. Both barrels shot well, even by todays standards. Because I was limited to 6PPC USA Sako brass, I ran a 68gr Tucker bullet around 3250fps with something like 27.5gr of H322. My 6BR pushed the same bullet around 3500fps with 34.5gr of W748. With the accuracy being about the same, the 6BR had a 250fps advantage. Why did this mean something? Our matches consisted of seven various disciplines, including 3 postion shooting with our sporter rifles. For that reason, no flags were used. The match that was shot with my 6BR was a 200 yard unlimited score match. That 250fps gave me .4" less drift at 200 yards in a 10 mph wind. That is a substantial score advantage.
After winning the championship, Andy Lyda wanted to give me a hard time about my 6BR. Same question, "why"? He said the PPC is more accurate. I said "I don't see that, and my 6BR drifts less". I turned things around by saying that I could out shoot him with any caliber, even a 30-30. He told me to put my money where my mouth is, saying, "if you show up with a 30-30 next year, you will get laughed of the range". The next year we shot 8 matches. The 30-30 won the championship, beating Andy all 8 matches. My load was 38gr of IMR4320 behind a 150gr Sierra Matchking at 2800fps.
After that, I started going to New Braunfels with Frank Wilson. There we shot score in the morning, and group in the afternoon. The 30-30 dominated in the score matches, and surprised everyone in the group matches with many wins. Trophies were given for top 3 finishes in score and group. The 30-30 managed 36 top 3 finishes in 3 years of shooting. To this day Jerry Hensler says that he has never seen a 30 caliber shoot so consistent. My load in New Braunfalls was never changed over the 3 years. I used 40gr of 2015 Israeli powder with a 125gr Berger at around 3100fps. I honestly never changed my powder measure setting.
The Texas State match in 2000 was coming up. I did not have a sporter weight rifle. I didn't know if one would even shoot well. I decided to build one for the match. It is the same one I shoot today with the blue and white marble colored stock. Before the match, Jerry Hensler sold me his Scott 4197 powder to me. It tested well on Friday. My first groups of my first ever registered match were: .150", .123", and .190". With a .1543 agg. after 3 matches, trouble came my way. I completely missed the 4th target. After removing the bolt and getting back on paper, my group was a .287", then followed by my last group of a .339" for a low .2" agg. That gave me a second place finish, with Charles Huckeba the winner. It wasn't until I got back home that I realized my rear scope ring was broken. It would be 8 years before I returned to benchrst shooting.
Still the question of "why" remains. I have several answers. I love shooting my 30-30. I want to further develope the accuracy potential of the 30-30. The recoil isn't a big deal. I have been able to push the 30-30 to it's fullest potential as a hunting round, with velocities and bullet drop comparable to the 270 Winchester. And last of all, the 30-30 does win matches, and it has won 2 gun grand aggs more than once. I may not win a lot, but these days, I shoot very few matches, and never fire a single round from the bench between matches. Back when the 30-30 was known for winning a lot. I practiced a lot. Remember the odds are only about a 50-1 chance of me winning, regardless of caliber choice. How can anyone say that there is no gain in that? Speedy once asked me if I just shoot the 30-30 so I can beat the PPC. Isn't he trying to beat other 6PPC's? Even the PPC shooters only shoot for enjoyment and to further develope the accuracy of the shooting sport. I currently own four 6PPC barrels, and have one more 6PPC barrel on order. I have nothing against the 6PPC. I love the way it shoots. I have only shot the 6PPC twice at a registered match in the last 6 years. I did not place any better with the PPC. While I believe the 30's are easier to tune, I believe the 6PPC is way easier to keep in tune than most PPC shooters ever realize. I have seen so many 6PPC shooters adjust their powder measures after the first group that didn't quite go as expected. All the years that I had success with the 6PPC and 6BR, I pretty much left my loads alone. Not saying you never need to change your load, just saying maybe half as often as you do. When I shot the PPC and BR in Burnet, I went preloaded to the range.
Attached are examples of 30-30 performance vs. the 270 Winchester. It's only fair that the 30-30 is fired in a bolt action or something like a Ruger #1 for maximum potential. Velocities listed for the 30-30 can be obtained in a 22" barrel. The 270 load is for a 130gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a BC of .433 at 3100fps. The 30-30 load is for a 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a BC of .366 at 3150fps. Both rifles are set for a 200 yard zero, which is typical for a hunting rifle. The 500 yard drop and energy of the 30-30 is very close to the 270. with only 1.5" more drop at 500 yards.
If any of you have any questions or doubts concerning anything I have written, feel free to comment. If you have any doubts concerning any velocities I have listed for the 30-30, I will shoot over any chronograph with witnesses. Afterwards anyone who chooses can extract the case from the chamber and observe for high pressure signs. Obviuosly these are high pressure loads, but considered working loads. The cases continue to be reloaded with good primer tension. I have never pushed the 30-30 to a primer leak. I have however seen this problem with the 25-06, 270, and 30-06 when trying to get a little more out of them.
Michael
Recently at the Rattlesnake, I was asked by one of the most well known shooters in BR, why I put up with the recoil when there is no gain. I told him that I shot the 30-30 because of a dare.
Back in 1994, I had just won the Burnet Gun Club championship with my 6BR. At that time all I owned was two barrels for my 18lb rifle that is now my 13.5lb rifle that I currently use. Those two barrels were 1.35" 6PPC and 6BR. Both barrels shot well, even by todays standards. Because I was limited to 6PPC USA Sako brass, I ran a 68gr Tucker bullet around 3250fps with something like 27.5gr of H322. My 6BR pushed the same bullet around 3500fps with 34.5gr of W748. With the accuracy being about the same, the 6BR had a 250fps advantage. Why did this mean something? Our matches consisted of seven various disciplines, including 3 postion shooting with our sporter rifles. For that reason, no flags were used. The match that was shot with my 6BR was a 200 yard unlimited score match. That 250fps gave me .4" less drift at 200 yards in a 10 mph wind. That is a substantial score advantage.
After winning the championship, Andy Lyda wanted to give me a hard time about my 6BR. Same question, "why"? He said the PPC is more accurate. I said "I don't see that, and my 6BR drifts less". I turned things around by saying that I could out shoot him with any caliber, even a 30-30. He told me to put my money where my mouth is, saying, "if you show up with a 30-30 next year, you will get laughed of the range". The next year we shot 8 matches. The 30-30 won the championship, beating Andy all 8 matches. My load was 38gr of IMR4320 behind a 150gr Sierra Matchking at 2800fps.
After that, I started going to New Braunfels with Frank Wilson. There we shot score in the morning, and group in the afternoon. The 30-30 dominated in the score matches, and surprised everyone in the group matches with many wins. Trophies were given for top 3 finishes in score and group. The 30-30 managed 36 top 3 finishes in 3 years of shooting. To this day Jerry Hensler says that he has never seen a 30 caliber shoot so consistent. My load in New Braunfalls was never changed over the 3 years. I used 40gr of 2015 Israeli powder with a 125gr Berger at around 3100fps. I honestly never changed my powder measure setting.
The Texas State match in 2000 was coming up. I did not have a sporter weight rifle. I didn't know if one would even shoot well. I decided to build one for the match. It is the same one I shoot today with the blue and white marble colored stock. Before the match, Jerry Hensler sold me his Scott 4197 powder to me. It tested well on Friday. My first groups of my first ever registered match were: .150", .123", and .190". With a .1543 agg. after 3 matches, trouble came my way. I completely missed the 4th target. After removing the bolt and getting back on paper, my group was a .287", then followed by my last group of a .339" for a low .2" agg. That gave me a second place finish, with Charles Huckeba the winner. It wasn't until I got back home that I realized my rear scope ring was broken. It would be 8 years before I returned to benchrst shooting.
Still the question of "why" remains. I have several answers. I love shooting my 30-30. I want to further develope the accuracy potential of the 30-30. The recoil isn't a big deal. I have been able to push the 30-30 to it's fullest potential as a hunting round, with velocities and bullet drop comparable to the 270 Winchester. And last of all, the 30-30 does win matches, and it has won 2 gun grand aggs more than once. I may not win a lot, but these days, I shoot very few matches, and never fire a single round from the bench between matches. Back when the 30-30 was known for winning a lot. I practiced a lot. Remember the odds are only about a 50-1 chance of me winning, regardless of caliber choice. How can anyone say that there is no gain in that? Speedy once asked me if I just shoot the 30-30 so I can beat the PPC. Isn't he trying to beat other 6PPC's? Even the PPC shooters only shoot for enjoyment and to further develope the accuracy of the shooting sport. I currently own four 6PPC barrels, and have one more 6PPC barrel on order. I have nothing against the 6PPC. I love the way it shoots. I have only shot the 6PPC twice at a registered match in the last 6 years. I did not place any better with the PPC. While I believe the 30's are easier to tune, I believe the 6PPC is way easier to keep in tune than most PPC shooters ever realize. I have seen so many 6PPC shooters adjust their powder measures after the first group that didn't quite go as expected. All the years that I had success with the 6PPC and 6BR, I pretty much left my loads alone. Not saying you never need to change your load, just saying maybe half as often as you do. When I shot the PPC and BR in Burnet, I went preloaded to the range.
Attached are examples of 30-30 performance vs. the 270 Winchester. It's only fair that the 30-30 is fired in a bolt action or something like a Ruger #1 for maximum potential. Velocities listed for the 30-30 can be obtained in a 22" barrel. The 270 load is for a 130gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a BC of .433 at 3100fps. The 30-30 load is for a 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with a BC of .366 at 3150fps. Both rifles are set for a 200 yard zero, which is typical for a hunting rifle. The 500 yard drop and energy of the 30-30 is very close to the 270. with only 1.5" more drop at 500 yards.
If any of you have any questions or doubts concerning anything I have written, feel free to comment. If you have any doubts concerning any velocities I have listed for the 30-30, I will shoot over any chronograph with witnesses. Afterwards anyone who chooses can extract the case from the chamber and observe for high pressure signs. Obviuosly these are high pressure loads, but considered working loads. The cases continue to be reloaded with good primer tension. I have never pushed the 30-30 to a primer leak. I have however seen this problem with the 25-06, 270, and 30-06 when trying to get a little more out of them.
Michael
