What's Happening with the Beggs Cartridges?

Gene Beggs

Active member
For those of you who have followed the history of the 220 and 6mm Beggs cartridges, I thought I would update you on what has transpired. Before going into detail, I will say right up front, "Both cartridges have exceeded my expectations; especially, the 6mm Beggs!" :D

If you have only recently joined us, the 220 Beggs cartridge was developed to provide the short-range group shooter with a cartridge equal to the 22PPC-100 but without the case forming hassles. :)

The 220 Beggs is simply the Lapua 220 Russian case as it comes from the box with no changes to the body and shoulder angles; the only change being the radius at the junction of the neck and shoulder.

The standard 220 Russian cartridge uses a .125 radius at the junction of the neck and shoulder, which results in excessive growth in length compared to the PPC. On the 220 Beggs, the only change to the standard 220 Russian was to sharpen this radius to .060, which is the same as the PPC. Internal case capacity of the 220 Beggs is virtually identical to the 22PPC-100. The Beggs cartridge shoots the 52 grain .224 bullets at the same velocity (3500 to 3550) with equal accuracy using N133, Benchmark, 8208 and other similar powders. Factory-made, custom dies by Hornady and L.E. Wilson are available off the shelf. Chamber reamers are available off the shelf from both JGS and PTG.

If you want a terrific 22 centerfire cartridge for use in light varmint, heavy varmint and unlimited 100, 200 and 300 yard group shooting, the 220 Beggs is an excellent choice. Which brings up the question;

"The 6PPC has dominated group shooting for decades; why would anyone want to go back to a .224 bore?"

The simple answer is, "Reduced muzzle blast and recoil."

Yep, that's it! The .224 bores are less punishing to shoot but give up nothing to the 6PPC in accuracy and wind bucking capability.

If you have a tendency to flinch, the .224 bore will help. Mike Ratigan, who is a big fan of the 22PPC-100 estimates a 30 percent reduction in muzzle blast and recoil over the 6PPC. In his book, "Extreme Rifle Accuracy" he says "Shooting the 22 against the 6PPC is almost like legalized cheating."

The ONLY disadvantage of the 22PPC-100 and 220 Beggs cartridges is you can't shoot them in Sporter category. :eek: That's it in a nutshell. :cool: Which brings us to the story of the 6mm Beggs. :)

Let me ask you a question,

"If there were a 6mm cartridge that would compete heads up with the 6PPC using the same 68 grain bullet at the same velocity (3360 to 3400 fps) using two grains less powder, and furthermore, do so with greatly reduced muzzle blast and recoil as compared to the 6PPC, you would probably be interested in hearing about it; wouldn't you?" Sure you would! :cool: Listen up. :)

When I set out to develope the 220 Beggs cartridge, I gave no thought to a 6mm version. The 6PPC reined supreme; some felt that NOTHING would ever surpass it. Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and make a bold statement,

"Yes, something HAS come along that surpasses the legendary 6PPC for 100, 200, and 300 yard group shooting, it's called the 6mm Beggs!"

"Aw,, come on Beggs :rolleyes:" you say, "You've got a lot of nerve making a statement like that! NOTHING beats the 6PPC."

Well,, let me explain;

The 6PPC and the 6mm Beggs both use the same case; the Lapua 220 Russian, which is the greatest BR case we have ever had, but with the terrific powders available today we no longer need the extra capacity of the 6PPC which is obtained by blowing out the body taper and steepening the shoulder angle to 30 degrees. The 6mm Beggs holds exactly 2 grains less powder than the 6PPC.

Using the faster burning powders such as Norma 200, N130 and Hodgdon's 4198 Extreme, the 6mm Beggs launches 68 grain bullets at 3360 to 3400 fps, same as the 6PPC, which strongly suggests it is a more efficient cartridge! But here is the big difference, the most important difference and the reason you should switch to the 6mm Beggs cartridge for 2010 ;)

THE 6MM BEGGS CARTRIDGE DOES EVERYTHING THE 6PPC DOES BUT WITH GREATLY REDUCED MUZZLE BLAST AND RECOIL!!!

That's right! If you have ever shot a 22PPC you know how pleasant it is compared to the 6PPC. If I were to sit you down behind my 6mm Beggs Sporter and ask you to compare it to your hot loaded 6PPC, you would swear it feels like a 22PPC. "But how is this possible?" you ask.

The faster burning powders burn more efficiently and completely in our 22 inch Sporter barrels resulting in greatly reduced pressure at bullet exit. As you know, it is the jet effect of the muzzle blast that is largely responsible for felt recoil. Now be honest with yourself,,,

Wouldn't it be nice to have a 6mm Sporter that will do everything a 6PPC does but feels like you're shooting a 22? Well, now you can. :)

For next year, I'm building six new Sporters chambered in 6mm Beggs with .269 necks. The action is the Stiller Viper Drop Port, RBLP. Bartlein GT barrels 22 inch length. Stocks are aluminum Ultralite and each rifle will be equipped a tuner. Weight is such that you can use either a Leu Competition or March scope. I'll be anxious to get these rifles into the hands of some top notch, competitive shooters next year. If interested, contact me on or after Dec 15.

Later

Gene Beggs
 
6Beggs

Gene:
I struggled with the 6 Beggs and finally put the PPC barrel back on.
Not what you wanted to hear.

I then struggled with the PPC...............(Gene just went "Wheeeewww")

I found some gunhandling issues that I'm trying to overcome, and a stupid scope issue and hope to get the shooter back into the game.
I'm gonna get that Beggs barrel back on there and start messing with it again.
Have you tested any of the new XBR powder?
Bryan
 
Gene

Great post!

However, when you say "greatly reduced recoil" could you elaborate a bit on this? Perhaps even quantify it to some degree, if possible? If I may ask, I would expect that the recoil is a result of the force needed to push the bullet out with xxxx fps. If that is equal between the 6ppc and the 6Beggs, what am I missing? I understand that the powder might be more efficient burned, and that the amount of powder is less, however still the pressure that is needed to push a bullet out with xxxx fps is equal regardless if the chamber is named 6ppc or 6Beggs?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great post!

However, when you say "greatly reduced recoil" could you elaborate a bit on this? Perhaps even quantify it to some degree, if possible? If I may ask, I would expect that the recoil is a result of the force needed to push the bullet out with xxxx fps. If that is equal between the 6ppc and the 6Beggs, what am I missing? I understand that the powder might be more efficient burned, and that the amount of powder is less, however still the pressure that is needed to push a bullet out with xxxx fps is equal regardless if the chamber is named 6ppc or 6Beggs?

I'm not a physicist(or rocket scientist) but, forget about the bullet and the velocity for a minute. They are equal.The gasses that exit the muzzle behind the bullet have mass and energy. A more efficient case and powder combo can deliver the same force in a shorter time. This creates less ejecta(muzzle blast) from the barrel. Muzzle blast is much like a rockets propellant gasses. The more effiecient cases allow faster powders. Faster powders can achieve the same energy as slower powders but with less volume and burn more completly in the barrel producing less muzzle blast. Also, the faster, more efficiently delivered energy has less time to act upon the gun. I think this gets into conservation of momentum. Maybe someone more qualified than myself will correct me or add to this. Like I said, I'm no rocket scientist.--Mike Ezell
 
I'm not a physicist(or rocket scientist) but, forget about the bullet and the velocity for a minute. They are equal.The gasses that exit the muzzle behind the bullet have mass and energy. A more efficient case and powder combo can deliver the same force in a shorter time. This creates less ejecta(muzzle blast) from the barrel. Muzzle blast is much like a rockets propellant gasses. The more effiecient cases allow faster powders. Faster powders can achieve the same energy as slower powders but with less volume and burn more completly in the barrel producing less muzzle blast. Also, the faster, more efficiently delivered energy has less time to act upon the gun. I think this gets into conservation of momentum. Maybe someone more qualified than myself will correct me or add to this. Like I said, I'm no rocket scientist.--Mike Ezell

This I can understand, in theory at least. However, if I understand you correctly I assume we can agree on that the difference can be located to what is affecting the bullet AFTER it has left the barrel? It might be that I got the wording wrong with "greatly reduced recoil", however what I have a hard time understanding is if this reduction is due to less muzzle blast (give or take) how (much) does this really improve the accuracy of the bullet that much?

I admire Beggs work a lot, I use one of his tuners, and this is why I would like to understand as much as possible on the subject. I mean if the N133 is just too slow would an equivalent approach be to improve the burning rate yet still be able to have a proper powder filling of the brass? Or are we really looking into a subject of getting as fast powder as possible pushing the bullet of a appropriate speed in a small as possible brass - said in an other way, using a brass even smaller than the currant 220 Russian? For me this is really one of the most interesting aspect of BR shooting, so any discussion is of most interest from my point of view. I am sorry if we are moving away from the original intention of the thread, if so we could perhaps start another one?


Ruud
 
?????????????

Let's just take a 221 fireball, neck it up to 6mm. and shoot "zeros" all day long.

Recoil is a product of physics, for every action, there is a equal and opposite reaction. What do we see in a typical 10.5 pound 6PPC. Four, maybe five pounds of recoil??

We just had a Nationals where records fell like dominos, and the vast majority of the shooters who set these records were shooting 133 in a 6PPC.

I think the reasoning behind the 6 Beggs is flawed, in that I have yet to meet a single Benchrest Shooter who complained about the "excessive" recoil of a 6PPC.

That blast on the bullet thing is a tad suspect as well. I go back to the phenominol performance that is common in the 6PPC.


Now, the 22 Beggs, that is a different story. It truly does give state of the art Benchrest performance in a 22 with very little of the hassle involved in making the other super agging 22, the 22PPC short. If I were going to shoot a 22, the Beggs would be the logical choice.

But there is always that Sporter thing..........jackie
 
Most appropriate thread from a personal point of view. Have just been reading one of the articles in The Benchrest Shooting Primer, related to how shooters (then - 1993) were returning to the 22 caliber Benchrest for the reasons you pointed out. The first thing I thought of after reading the article was the 220 Beggs.

Now, I am not a Benchrest shooter..maybe you could call me a benchrest shooter as I do enjoy precision shooting. At some point I would like to build a 220 Beggs, and the information you have posted encourages me to that. Perhaps sooner than later.

Thank you Gene (and German) for your input to this thread, will follow it with great interest.

Mike Castles
 
Recoil is a product of physics, for every action, there is a equal and opposite reaction. ....jackie

Assume equal gun weight. There are more forces at work than just bullet(mass) and speed(velocity). The muzzle blast has mass as well and it also contributes to recoil. It can be compared to how a rocket takes off.

That blast on the bullet thing is a tad suspect as well. I go back to the phenominol performance that is common in the 6PPC.

This one would be hard to prove, it does stand to reason. The gasses(muzzle blast) do exit faster than the bullet and a bigger blast would at least surround the bullet longer. Also the higher muzzle pressures of the slower burning powders will subject the bullet to a more "violent" blast exiting the muzzle. That theory has been around for a while with boat tail bullets. The PPC is and has been a very great cartridge but whose to say that it or the
30BR can't be beaten out or improved upon...maybe now,maybe later.--Mike Ezell
 
This I can understand, in theory at least. However, if I understand you correctly I assume we can agree on that the difference can be located to what is affecting the bullet AFTER it has left the barrel?

Ruud

The bullet, once it has left the barrel. has no effect on recoil. I don't know if accuracy will be affected, but obviously some believe it may well be.--Mike Ezell
 
Let's just take a 221 fireball, neck it up to 6mm. and shoot "zeros" all day long.

Recoil is a product of physics, for every action, there is a equal and opposite reaction. What do we see in a typical 10.5 pound 6PPC. Four, maybe five pounds of recoil??

We just had a Nationals where records fell like dominos, and the vast majority of the shooters who set these records were shooting 133 in a 6PPC.

I think the reasoning behind the 6 Beggs is flawed, in that I have yet to meet a single Benchrest Shooter who complained about the "excessive" recoil of a 6PPC.

That blast on the bullet thing is a tad suspect as well. I go back to the phenominol performance that is common in the 6PPC.


Now, the 22 Beggs, that is a different story. It truly does give state of the art Benchrest performance in a 22 with very little of the hassle involved in making the other super agging 22, the 22PPC short. If I were going to shoot a 22, the Beggs would be the logical choice.

But there is always that Sporter thing..........jackie

Ditto what Jackie said.

How can a 2-3 percent case capacity difference create a "considerable recoil" difference, all else being the same?..............Don
 
Go to this link and you can easily check the ft/lbs of free recoil energy. http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

I plugged in the figures for a 6mm 10.5 pound rifle running a 68 gr bullet at 3300 fps with 29 gr of powder vs a 6mm 10.5 pound rifle running a 68 gr bullet at 3300 fps with 26 gr. of powder. If you could get that velocity with each load, you would have about a 7% reduction in recoil. 3.5 ft/lbs vs 3.25 ft/lbs of free recoil energy. What's really interesting is if you substitute a 52 gr bullet running 3500 fps using 26 gr of powder. The recoil drops from 3.5 ft/lbs to 2.47 ft/lbs for a reduction of 29%. You don't think of a 10.5 pound 6 PPC having much recoil, but it's easily apparent when you shoot a 6 PPC in sporter then switch to a .22 PPC short in LV and the above figures back it up.
 
Gene is too Good a Friend of Mine

I want to see the rifles shoot. I do believe Gene can build as perfect a competititve BR rifle as we have ever seen. How many records can a Beggs rifle break in 1 year.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
Gene.. a question!

I remember reading a little while back that there were some issues with the dies from Hornady in that they weren't sizing the base enough... might be wrong though so please set me straight. I bought my reamers and dies some time before this issue was discovered but have had to use up other barrels first.
Do I need to do something with these dies before I can use them? Need I send them back?
Hope you can shed some light and I look forward to shooting the 220 at our next match.
Peter
 
Stephen

I want to see the rifles shoot. I do believe Gene can build as perfect a competititve BR rifle as we have ever seen. How many records can a Beggs rifle break in 1 year.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

none, unfortunately, if 1)no one switches to the Beggs and/or 2) none of the top shooters do. There is a healthy inertia in the benchrest shooting sports.
 
Hi Guys, I'm Back

Good morning everyone! Sorry 'bout the delay in answering your questions but the wife and I had to take a couple of days off to visit the Grandkids in Katy. Those of you who have grandchildren know what I mean when I say, "Grandkids must surely be God's most precious gift! :)

Merry Christmas!

Gene Beggs
 
Mornin' Bryan

Gene:
I struggled with the 6 Beggs and finally put the PPC barrel back on.
Not what you wanted to hear.

I then struggled with the PPC...............(Gene just went "Wheeeewww")

I found some gunhandling issues that I'm trying to overcome, and a stupid scope issue and hope to get the shooter back into the game.
I'm gonna get that Beggs barrel back on there and start messing with it again.
Have you tested any of the new XBR powder?
Bryan


Bryan, I hope you will make time this winter to drive down to Odessa and shoot with me in the tunnel. I know I can help you with your rifle handling issues and it will also give me a chance to carefully evaluate all your equipment for gremlins. I'm a good gremlin detector and exterminator; believe me, there are very few shooters who emerge from the tunnel experience without saying, "Wow, I'm glad I came here; I would have never figured that out on my own!"

Be sure and bring your 6mm Beggs barrel, I want to set it back slightly and freshen up the chamber. I have found it is necessary to polish out the aft end of the chambers to .4420 in order to prevent 'click-at-the-top' extraction.

No, I have not tested the new Hodgdon powder. I still maintain that H4198 Extreme is THE powder for the 6mm Beggs.

I'll look forward to hearing from you. In case you have misplaced it, my cell phone number is 432-631-5124.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Great post!

However, when you say "greatly reduced recoil" could you elaborate a bit on this? Perhaps even quantify it to some degree, if possible? If I may ask, I would expect that the recoil is a result of the force needed to push the bullet out with xxxx fps. If that is equal between the 6ppc and the 6Beggs, what am I missing? I understand that the powder might be more efficient burned, and that the amount of powder is less, however still the pressure that is needed to push a bullet out with xxxx fps is equal regardless if the chamber is named 6ppc or 6Beggs?


Intuitively one would think that if two cartridges launch the same bullet at the same velocity, muzzle blast and recoil would be identical but that is not the case.

In his posts #4 and #12, German Salazar explains it very well and I don't think I could improve on what he said. Please go back and carefully reread my first post and German's #4 and #12.

In your post above you asked,

"However, when you say 'greatly reduced recoil' could you elaborate a bit on this? Perhaps even quantify it to some degree, if possible?"

Well,, when I say "Greatly reduced recoil" that's what I mean! The only way you can really appreciate the difference in muzzle blast and recoil between the 6PPC and the 6Beggs is to shoot them back to back. I'll give you an example;

During the past couple of years, I have seldom shot anything but my 6Beggs Ultralite Sporter. When you shoot the same rifle day after day, your subconcious mind knows what to expect when you pull the trigger. Several weeks ago, I completed an Ultralite Drop Port rifle for a friend who wanted it chambered with his own reamer in 6PPC rather than 6Beggs. We went out to the tunnel to test fire it. He shot it first and then I sat down behind it to shoot it a bit. I'll never forget how startled I was when I pulled the trigger! My subconcious mind had said, "Okay, this looks like the same rifle I have been shooting for several months and I know what to expect so here goes." KABOOM! Whoa,, what happened? Oh,, yeah, now I remember, although it looks like the same rifle, this is a 6PPC not a 6 Beggs.

That's the best way I can explain it. :)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Not a problem

I remember reading a little while back that there were some issues with the dies from Hornady in that they weren't sizing the base enough... might be wrong though so please set me straight. I bought my reamers and dies some time before this issue was discovered but have had to use up other barrels first.
Do I need to do something with these dies before I can use them? Need I send them back?
Hope you can shed some light and I look forward to shooting the 220 at our next match.
Peter


Peter, there is no problem with the Hornady dies for the Beggs cartridges, and 'No', you will not have to return your reamers or anything. Let me explain.

The Lapua 220 Russian case as it comes from the box measures .4400 or maybe a tenth or two under, right in front of the extractor groove. The reamers for the Beggs cartridges from both JGS and PTG cut a chamber of .4400 at this point. This leaves very little room for expansion and even with hot loads, the cases come out of the chamber still measuring .4400 at the pressure ring. The Hornady dies also measure .4400 at the aft end so little or no sizing takes place resulting in 'click-at-the-top' extraction after several firings. The solution is simple! :)

Once the chamber is cut to depth, take some 320 grit abrasive cloth and a split dowel and polish the aft end of the chamber to .4420 which takes only a minute or two. Most gunsmiths do this anyway but for those who prefer to leave the chamber as the reamer cuts it, the reamer should be returned to the manufacturer and reground to .4420 at the aft end and .4010 at the shoulder.

Personally, I prefer to shine up the chamber walls a little bit anyway so I'll stick with the 320 grit polish but some prefer to have the reamer reground to .4420. It's your choice. In retrospect, if I had it to do again, I would have specified .4420 at the pressure ring and .4010 at the shoulder rather than the standard, 220 Russian specs of .4400 and .4020 respectively. :rolleyes:

The Hornady dies; should they be changed? NO! 'ell NO!

Since there wasn't enough sizing going on, one of my customers decided to send his Hornady/Beggs die to another shop for modification. It came back measuring about .4380 at the aft end and made quite a mess of the .4400 solid head of the cases. I won't mention his name but his initials are B.A. That's okay Bryan, I still love ya' man! :D And I'll replace that screwed up die with a new one, free of charge. :) How's that? :p Just bring it down with you when you come to shoot in the tunnel. :)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene .. Have you done a side by side comparison using H4198 in the Beggs and in the 6ppc to see if it has the same recoil?

Dan Kibler
 
Back
Top