what would you do?

John S

Member
I have this rifle scope that has been sent back to the American manufacture (life time) 4 times for repair.

Each time it is for the same problem. It will not hold zero and always jumps windage.

Last time I told them if it could not be fixed I would buy another scope.

Still has the same problem and sits in the safe.

Yes I have tried it on different rifles of known accuracy.

Please don't tell me to sell it at a gunshow or in the classifieds.

Is there a person I should talk to at Leupold? Seems like it is being shoveled in and shoveled out.

Thanks
 
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Another tack maybe...

John,

Have they offered to exchange it for another?

Philippe Fortin aka tazzman:confused:
 
I have this rifle scope that has been sent back to the American manufacture (life time) 4 times for repair.

Each time it is for the same problem. It will not hold zero and always jumps windage.

Last time I told them if it could not be fixed I would buy another scope.

Still has the same problem and sits in the safe.

Yes I have tried it on different rifles of known accuracy.

Please don't tell me to sell it at a gunshow or in the classifieds.

Is there a person I should talk to at Leupold? Seems like it is being shoveled in and shoveled out.

Thanks

What model is it? How much does it move?
 
I'm curious as to how you've ascertained that the scope is moving. When I shoot "train wrecks" I blame 'em on me and/or the wind -- not the scope. :)
 
I had to send one back twice and the 2nd time I put it in a Ziess Conquest box and they sent me a new one,,

I would keep sending it back with a hand written letter of the problems and get a little less polite each time until I got satisfaction,,I have a 35x and 40x myself and the 35x needs work on the elevation tracking,,
actually I thought it was common knowledge you had to keep an eye on these scopes for these problems
 
Hmmmm,,

I have this rifle scope that has been sent back to the American manufacture (life time) 4 times for repair.

Each time it is for the same problem. It will not hold zero and always jumps windage.

Last time I told them if it could not be fixed I would buy another scope.

Still has the same problem and sits in the safe.

Yes I have tried it on different rifles of known accuracy.

Please don't tell me to sell it at a gunshow or in the classifieds.

Is there a person I should talk to at Leupold? Seems like it is being shoveled in and shoveled out.

Thanks



John your post brings up a subject I deal with quite often in coaching benchrest shooting in the tunnel.

In order to help you, we need more information:

What is the model number and power of your scope?

What type of shooting are you doing?

Are you using wind flags?

How did you determine the scope is not holding point of aim/impact?

If you've returned the scope to Leupold four times and they pronounce it good, something else is wrong.

I have a Hood, double mount scope checker I use quite often. When a shooter claims his scope is not holding, more often than not, I find it is. Once in a while I find one that is moving but not often. Would there be any chance you could come out to Odessa/Midland, TX and shoot with me in the tunnel?

Gene Beggs
genebeggs@cableone.net
 
Thanks to all for your comments and thoughts.

I thought I made it clear, the scope in question, Leupold Model Vari-X III 2.5 X 8 #209375D, does the same thing on other proven shooters.

'How did you determine the scope is not holding point of aim/impact?" I really don't understand that question. My simple answer is because it doesn't.

The rifles all shoot great with different scopes. I have a Leupold BR 24X that I use for working up loads or to prove accuracy of a rifle.

Yes, I always use wind flags, concrete bench, windage and elevation rest

It's always the same problem on proven rifles. The establish zero windage, jumps as much as two to four minutes at 200 meters. It's really crazy stuff.

It's not loose screws, bad barrel, poor bedding, jerking the trigger, improper what ever. I would simply like to deal with someone at Leupold that can resolve this never ending drama. if it can't be fixed, that's ok, just tell me it was junk when it was designed and I'll buy another scope. You know what? I think I just figured it out. It was a poor design that can't be fixed.

$250 to the first "I'll take it"
 
........ snip.............

'How did you determine the scope is not holding point of aim/impact?" I really don't understand that question. My simple answer is because it doesn't.

........... snip..............

I think the question is "How do you know it's the scope and not the wind, your trigger pull, a flinch, a stroke, or a heart attack causing your problem". To some shooters the last thing they might blame would be the scope, and that's not a bad thing because good scopes don't often go bad. But that doesn't mean they can't.

In fact I have a Sightron SIII going back for repair today for the same problems you're experiencing. To the doubters, I'll say this.

Folks who shoot in competition requiring high precision, such as F-Class, Palma, or Bench Rest and who also have some experience usually know if they've launched a good round or not. Since nearly every shot MUST be fired properly using a consistent procedure to arrive in the winners circle, "pulling" one or shooting a flyer is not only a rare thing, it's also pretty easy to tell you've goobered up your shot the moment you launch it. Folks who get excited if they hit a paper plate at 50 yards half the time may not have the feel for this, but precision shooters usually know if they've made a mistake well before the bullet arrives at the target. Nobody is going to return a scope based on one errant shot anyway.

Then there is the wind. In my case I have the luxury of doing nearly all my testing in near zero wind conditions. A wind too light to feel or too light to spin my meter is not going to suddenly cause a 2 MOA windage error at 100 yards. In short, if there ain't no wind................. it ain't the wind.

Most competitive shooters know how their "good stuff" shoots. If you average, for example, .350 MOA at 100 yards you would not be surprised to go to the local range and fire 10 or 20 five-shot groups all between .500 MOA and .200 MOA. You might shoot one group in the 6's or 7's but that would be unusual. What you would NOT expect to see is a bunch of good 5 shot groups followed by a group with 4 touching and the 5th shot impacting 2 or 3 MOA off to one side. At first you might think that you've loaded a bad round. But if it happens 10 or 20 or 30 times, you have to start thinking that it might be an equipment problem.

In my case, and I suspect in the case of the OP, the next step is to review your reloading procedure, make sure the scope mounting is secure, action screws OK, re-check the scope parallax, and so on. But after I endured a couple of range sessions with the same problem I mounted a different scope. The problems instantly disappeared and my groups returned to normal.

Bottom line: Nobody (well hardly anybody) would ship a scope back after firing one errant round. But after exhaustive testing and by the process of elimination, it's possible to be pretty sure something inside your scope has failed. Considering all the tiny moving parts in a modern multi power scope it's amazing they survive as well as they do.
 
When you say two to four minutes at 200 meters, are you talking about 4 inches?? That's a lot, and indicates some type of mechanical problem internally with the scope.

When you ask a question such as yours on a Benchrest Forum, shooters assume you are talking about turning .200 groups into .350 groups, which can easily be explained away with miss reading the wind, bad bench technique, or any other of the million things that can cause a bullet not to take the same exact path as the one before.

I am assuming "minute of angle" is still defined as around 1" at 100 yards.

I have had multitudes of scopes apart, and most of the issues in holding Point of Impact is erector tube related, either in the gimble mount, or the contact points between the erector tube and the turrets.

I agree, a sudden shift of 4 inches at 200 meters as you described does point to the scope system.

If they will not give you a new scope on exchange, just toss it in the garbage and cut your losses.

I am going to start mounting brand new scopes at the start of every year on my Light Varmint Group Rifle and my Heavy Varmint Score Rifle.
 
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You are not the first and you won't be the last. This used to drive me crazy. I talked to a friend, a Hall of Fame shooter, and he said that he solved the problem by buying Valdada.

If there is a fix, Leupold isn't going to spend the money. If I sound P.O.'d that's cause I have spent way too much money on these scopes and had the same problem again and again. I've had a 3/4" jump into the wind at a match at Holton a few years ago right in the middle of a group. At the Super Shoot in '04 I had the P.O.I. shift all the way across the mothball on the first shot for record on the last target of the day. Three sighters went right where they had been all day then the first shoot moved that far. Since I was leading at the time, I have a lot of witnesses. I went to the sighter, took a lot of shots and managed to salvage third place. The P.O.I. had changed and it stayed there. Since my record at the S.S. isn't wonderful, it cost me my one chance to win something big. I tried the conversion that Dwight Scott and Gene Buyks made for a while and it seemed to work well.

I'm way too old to compete anymore but, if I could, I would get a Valdada. When I talked to my HOF friend about this he said he was shooting nothing but Valdada and he had 68 (honest) scopes for sale.

So sue me,

Dick Wright
 
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John S. : There's nothing worse for a shooter or hunter than a scope you've lost confidence in, regardless of brand.

I'd call their customer service @ (503) 526-1400, outline what's been done and request an exchange for a new scope. Believe me, they don't want you to be unhappy with their product. Sometimes, all the "...it does this and now it does this" stuff can get lost in translation.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Why Bother

The scope has been sent back to the manufacturer four times for repairs that haven't fixed the problem. What other choice is there but to buy another scope? I sent two scopes back twice for repairs for the same problem. They were never fixed. I no longer own those scopes.

Just my experience.




Glenn
 
Yes 1" at 100 yards is about one minute.

The scope has been tried on two different rifles, with the same results.

I am having a 6x47 Lapua built and will look at what Valdada has to offer.

Yep, I am going to toss it.

After sitting in the safe for a couple of years, I wish I would have never given it another try.

I am in Scobey, MT right now with my dogs hunting sharptail grouse. I'll be out until Christmas chasing birds.

Best wishes to all.
 
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