What tool / cutter setup do you use to turn rifle barrel shanks?
- Thread starter LVLAaron
- Start date
Pete Wass
Well-known member
Good advice
for those who are hobbyist's and or don't do a lot of work. learning to grind lathe tools is a darn handy skill to learn. There are plenty of YouTube vids on how to do it. I have carbide but often use High Speed tools as well.
I'm soon to buy some AR Warner inserts of HSS for threading. Spending the Nursing Home's money you see.
Pete
for those who are hobbyist's and or don't do a lot of work. learning to grind lathe tools is a darn handy skill to learn. There are plenty of YouTube vids on how to do it. I have carbide but often use High Speed tools as well.
I'm soon to buy some AR Warner inserts of HSS for threading. Spending the Nursing Home's money you see.
Pete
I often grind different tools on each end of a HSS blank.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
In some cases
HS tools give a better finish than carbide does and that might be a good reason to switch, particularly for those who turn slow. From my experience, the only carbide that I can get a good finish with my setup are the "Finishing" inserts that are very delicate to handle and chip if one looks at them wrong. Now, I'm an old man and not trained to be a machinist sooooooooo. Doesn't cost a whole lot to put an new edge on a HS tool.
Pete
HS tools give a better finish than carbide does and that might be a good reason to switch, particularly for those who turn slow. From my experience, the only carbide that I can get a good finish with my setup are the "Finishing" inserts that are very delicate to handle and chip if one looks at them wrong. Now, I'm an old man and not trained to be a machinist sooooooooo. Doesn't cost a whole lot to put an new edge on a HS tool.
Pete
Totally agree.
Carbide is made with sintered particles of material.
Its 'grain' structure when compared to HSS is markedly coarser.
It also requires a 'tight' setup.
The slightest movement can result in chipped edges.
Interrupted cuts can easily take the edge from carbide.
HSS takes abuse a lot better.
A friend ended up with one of the "mill/drill" units.
He had no end of problems using carbide cutters.
I handed him some used HSS tools.
He called in a few hours and was very satisfied.
Cuts that looked like they had been polished.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I watched a Video
this morning of a gunsmith truing a Remington 700 bolt. He was using a HSS cutter he had ground himself. Left a very nice finish considering he was making very lite cuts. I think it's important to hone cutters well after one grinds them if one wants a nice finish.
Pete
this morning of a gunsmith truing a Remington 700 bolt. He was using a HSS cutter he had ground himself. Left a very nice finish considering he was making very lite cuts. I think it's important to hone cutters well after one grinds them if one wants a nice finish.
Pete
Diamond hones have come down in price enough to make them a 'standard' tool.
Diamond Hone Sharpening Set
Use these hand-held diamond sharpeners like a file. This four piece set contains medium (400), fine (600), super-fine (1200) and a coarse for quick bulk shaping.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/files-and-hones/70638-eze-lap-diamond-paddle-hones?item=70M0230&utm_source=free_google_shopping&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&gclid=CjwKCAjw_tWRBhAwEiwALxFPoWlHB_JSJnzh0wlvtP2oNM1jkklqO1qtiA27wpHeALexlNv4jnuzhRoCZdgQAvD_BwE
$29.50 for four grits.
With careful use they last darn near forever.
Water is a great 'lube.'
Stroke lightly.
Let the diamonds do the job.
It does not take all that much pressure.
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So back to "hardening...."
You'se have my attention. Can I heat/quench/anneal ("draw back") a typical HSS toolbit?
I'm quite adept at making scrapers and springs and knives and such from carbon steel but I've never tried "harden" a 1/2X1/2 tool blank so I'm asking.
"Can I shape a tool, get it set up to cut then heat/quench/draw it, hone the edge back to razor sharp???"
Do some of you do this with HSS tooling?
You'se have my attention. Can I heat/quench/anneal ("draw back") a typical HSS toolbit?
I'm quite adept at making scrapers and springs and knives and such from carbon steel but I've never tried "harden" a 1/2X1/2 tool blank so I'm asking.
"Can I shape a tool, get it set up to cut then heat/quench/draw it, hone the edge back to razor sharp???"
Do some of you do this with HSS tooling?
GeneT
Active member
Nope, never. The blank is provided hard, and you can only muck it up from there.
OK, it *is* steel, so you can screw up the hardness, but you'll never get back to as good as it was unless you have the same facilities as the foundry that produced it.
Buy the hardness / temper you're after, and preserve it during grinding (not as hard as it sounds, HSS is resilient stuff).
You *can* buy some O-1, or W-1 (annealed) and machine or grind to shape, harden and temper. It's much easier to make a cutter that would otherwise take a long time to grind, but the result won't be as good as one ground out of HSS (I'll allow that there might be special applications where this approach is somehow superior, but they are outside any domain in which I've worked).
GsT
tx Gene.... I misunderstood
I'm very happy with using HSS in many applications and can get a beautiful finish but the one place I'm having trouble is when timing multiple surfaces to each other.
I just often do stuff in ways that noone else does so my problems are often peculiar
Say what?
Of course the hardness can be manipulated.
Sometimes it is easier to soften it up to make complicated tools, and then then harden it back up.
It hardens just like every other decent grade of steel.
Heat to red hot.
Allow to cool slowly.
Shape.
Heat it back up to red hot.
Quench in oil.
I often quench in used motor oil.
Temper to improve toughness of core while maintaining surface hardness.
Once you have a multi meter with thermocouple inputs it is not all that hard
to nail temperatures.
The actual temperature points are not all that hard to find and achieve.
GeneT
Active member
Here's where I join the "show me" state. I have heat treating ovens (well, down to one) and thermocouples (like the one in my oven) are no mystery. You muck with a piece of high-quality HSS and you're not getting back to the homogeneous hardness of the manufacturer. You can't quench the center of a piece of metal - you'll always be quenching the outside and much later that 'coolness' reaches the center. As I said, you can play with O-1 and W-1, exactly as you've described, but do it with HSS and you're just ruining a good tool blank. A good piece of HSS was created with multiple processes generally outside those practical for the home-jobber. You need *hours* of soak at specific temperatures, in oxygen-free environments, to achieve the same hardness / temper through and through. The idea of a hard exterior over a ductile core has merit - that's what you can do with high-carbon steels, but it'll never match the quality of HSS for lathe work.
GsT
tx Gene.... I misunderstood
I'm very happy with using HSS in many applications and can get a beautiful finish but the one place I'm having trouble is when timing multiple surfaces to each other.
I just often do stuff in ways that noone else does so my problems are often peculiar
Hi Al, I made a simple grinding jig like this one https://homews.co.uk/page224.html it works very well, just hone the edge with a fine diamond lap until it will slice paper.\
* doggie *
I have an induction heater that does a wonderful job.
Good grief some must have too much time on their hands. Why someone would feel the need to mess with manipulating the hardness on HSS cutter blanks for general lathe turning which includes gunsmithing is beyond me. Grind them to form and use them, it's not rocket science. I will admit I've taken a diamond lap or two to them to sharpen them up on occasion but that's it.
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MilGunsmith
Member
Heat treating HSS blanks
Having started out as a toolmakers apprentice almost 60 years ago and still working as a Toolmaker/Gunsmith, I have never seen it done or had to do it myself. Just grind to shape and hone the edge. If that is to difficult just buy the A. R. Warner HSS inserts.
Having started out as a toolmakers apprentice almost 60 years ago and still working as a Toolmaker/Gunsmith, I have never seen it done or had to do it myself. Just grind to shape and hone the edge. If that is to difficult just buy the A. R. Warner HSS inserts.
Very nice as long as you do not accidentally screw up the temper when grinding.
You can salvage overheating HSS by running it though the typical heat, quench, temper routine.
Induction heating has real advantages here.
It heats from the center out instead of the sides in.
Placing thermocouples directly on the item being worked is better than simply relying on the 'oven' thermocouple.
I still have some of the dental cement used to anchor crowns and such sitting around.
It hardens like a ceramic, and will stick a thermocouple very nicely on almost any surface.
It works all the way up to red hot metal.
It has to work at firing temperatures for crowns, bridges, etc.
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