What questions to ask when buying a used BR

C

Codeman

Member
I'm looking to purchase a used BR LV rifle (probably from the classified ads here) and I'm not sure of what questions to ask the seller. I want to shoot at a near by club 100 and 200 group. When buying a BR rifle sight unseen what would be some questions to ask the seller. How does one choose a good LV rifle out of the many listed. I know I want a LV 6ppc, RBLP on a custom action. Any help with what questions to ask or what to look out for would be greatly appreciated.

Cody
 
Ask how many rounds are on barrel but always assume the barrel is need of replacement, then you will either do ok or be pleasantly surprised.
 
Cody

A well put together Benchrest Rifle is a pretty durable item. I have one Rifle, my favorite Sporter, than has seen tens of thousands of rounds.It has been my "go to" Rifle forover 10 years. It still operates like new.

There are a few concerns:

If it is a glue in, inquire as to the integrety of the action to stock bond. Of course, this can be easilly fixed, in that it is a matter of just re-gluing.

The firing pin, hole, and bolt face. Benchrest Shooters tend to shoot at higher pressures than normally encountered. If the firing pin and bolt face have been subjected to many blown primers, it can be a problem. This is something that is NOT easilly fixed.
Besides, unless it is a really great deal, you do not have to settle for that.

The barrel. Just assume that it has seen better days, (unless it is new).

There are some rarities. For instance, in places like Midland, where the dust is always blowing, aluminum body actions such as Pandas can experience excessive wear. But this is really a rare occurance. Heck, there are Pandas floating around that are 25+ years old, seen thousands of rounds, and are still winning.

If it is a Benchrest Rifle, it probably has a Jewel Trigger. While this is a VERY durable item, make sure that it is in operating condition. That is one good thing about triggers. If it works, it is in all likely hood fine. If anything is amiss, it probaly won't work in the first place.

One of your best bets is to buy the Rifle from a dealer such as Bob White. His integrety and reputation stands behind what he sells.

Of course, don't shy away from a good Rifle from a Benchrest Shooter. Benchrest Shooters are notorious for falling out of love with perfectly good Rifles. In this game, everybody just about knows everybody. Very few want to see their name appear on a Forum such as this for taking advantage of a novice.

Good Luck.........jackie
 
Make sure the locking lugs are not galled up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I should have put that all in caps to show how strongly I feel about this issue.
 
Used barrels never have more than 200 rounds on them...

... ask anyone.

I look at the barrel as a "throw away" and then your expectations have nowhere to go other than up (as Dick pointed out). The remainder of the "platform" should be solid. And the value of the platform should be somewhere around the same as a new gun subtracting the cost of a new barrel. And then that value decreases as the condition of the platform decreases.

Also, one should look at the bearing surfaces on the bolt and cocking piece, and if you can take the barrel off, also the action front and the locking surfaces inside the action. The paint job is important for value, but has little to do with the performance of the gun. (Except to look at it after a bad group and say "gee that gun at least looks good".)

One thing that is very often overlooked in a used gun is the ignition and trigger, especially the amount of fall. I usually click off the gun and listen to it. A good ignition has a crisp sound. I also want to click off the gun on an empty case with a spent primer in it to see how much the bolt handle jumps. Even new guns can have poor fit in these areas and it will affect its performance.

I believe that the firing pin fall is extremely important. Most benchrest actions need at least .200 and more like .230 of travel. You can get this closely measured by using the opposite end of a dial caliper and measure the distance of the back of the cocking piece to the end of the shroud and then subtract to smaller of the two numbers. I just looked last week at an older Hall-actioned gun that a guy around here bought off the internet. It was action #3. I clicked off the trigger and instead of a nice crisp click, I heard a dull thud. I checked the firing pin fall and there was only .170 of travel. And the trigger looked very new (too new for an action made in the 1980's). It was obvious to me that the seller took the original Jewel trigger (which usually has more travel than the newer ones) and sold the gun with the newer trigger. It is not that the newer triggers aren't good; it is just that Alan Hall most likely made the trigger hanger in that older action to match one of the older triggers. It just needs to have either another older trigger placed in the gun or a new trigger hanger made because the gun won't shoot three shots below two inches at 200 yards.

Best thing to do is find a benchrest shooter in your area and have him evaluate the gun before you finalize the sale. Otherwise, you may eventually spend more for your "bargain" gun than you would a new one. I find it unconscionable to sell a gun (or scope) with a known defect to someone who has a real desire to enter our sport. And there is little recourse when you buy one that has a problem.

I have bought all of my guns used, but have been lucky to know the previous owners and have assumed the cost of fixing anything that I have seen wrong with the gun. Used barrels add nothing to the value of a used gun; but the remaining platform should be solid and is where the value is in the gun.
 
Last edited:
Joe Krupa said:
I have bought all of my guns used, but have been lucky to know the previous owners and have assumed the cost of fixing anything that I have seen wrong with the gun. Used barrels add noting to the value of a used gun; but the remaining platform should be solid and is where the value is in the gun.
Click to expand...

Nothing in buying a used BR gun is better than buying from the previous owner in person and being able to shoot the Rifle a few times before completing the sale.
 
I have a hard time believing that someone who advertises here on BRC wouldn't be glad to offer a money back guarantee, like a 3-day inspection period. I guess I've dealt with 6 BR guys with used guns and every one of them value their reputation for integrity far above the worth of any gun.

This ain't the local Ford Dealer :rolleyes:

BTST, I can't understand how ANYONE without years of experience with Benchrest Grade stuff can possibly evaluate this stuff....???

If I were to ask a BRC advertiser ONE question I'd ask "if we have a disagreement about the quality of this rifle and we can't resolve it, do you mind if I bring it up on the board??"

The advertisers here on this site WILL make you happy.....and I've seen Bob White at Shooters Corner advertise full-on BR rifles as "varmint rifles" because "so far no one can get this gun to shoot."

The only gripe I've ever had on a used gun is quality of paint job..... if a gun is painted and you can't actually see and feel it then it's pretty hard to evaluate the finish.


All said and done, here's what I think is fair. Make your deal such that you buy the gun outright and pay shipping...... NOW, you have a three-day Right Of Refusal BUT, you will pay shipping and insurance on a return. INSURED FOR FULL VALUE........... This way everyone's protected, you the buyer can't abuse the seller, and vise versa. No BR gun sale is going to be decided by the 50-70.00 shipping/ins but also even the most dedicated window shopper will think twice about throwing away that 50-70.00 just to look at a rifle.

al
 
If you can-buy one of Joe Krupa's used rifles. They are top of the line and cheap too! :D

My "go to rifle" is ex-Krupa and is it exceptional!

Joe - great post by the way.

Jeff
 
I just purchased my first bench rifle 3 days ago. It was from this forum. The main question that I was told to ask was "has the gun ever won?" After that, there were many questions about who built the rifle, lugs, smoothness, etc. 1/2 the questions I didn't(and still don't) understand, but I asked them anyway and passed the information on to more experienced shooters.

I live in NE and the seller lives in KY. Not practical for me to see the rifle, and I wouldn't know what I was looking at anyway. I worked out a deal with the previous owner:
1. I would send him a check for the full amount
2. He would not cash the check until later.
3. He would send the rifle and components to a gunsmith in IA that I am going to work with.
4. The gunsmith would check it over and get ahold of me
5a. If he said ok - the owner cashes the check and I pick up the rifle
5b. If she said no - the smith sends it back and I pay for shipping.

Everything worked out great.

Since I am just getting into this sport - I don't know enough to make a decision like that - so I have to trust the people that do know.

My advice - have someone more experienced help you make your decision.
I don't like spending money twice.

Stanley
 
Cody,
You mentioned that you want to shoot at a nearby club 100-200yd group and it looks like you live in Texas.I would recommend that you talk to the guys at the club first. Can you even get in ?
I've heard of clubs in your neck of the woods that are full up and aren't offering memberships. If you can get in,talk to the guys there and express your interests. You are going to need more than a rifle to get involved in this game.If it is a BR oriented club the guys there probably have or know of "good" rifles for sale as well as other necessary equipment and they can show you how to get started and work with you as you progress.
If you lived in the upstate New York area,you could walk into the Canastota Club on any Saturday ,meet the guys,shoot somebodys BR rifle that day,and we could line you up with good used equipment inside of 24hours.
You need the club to shoot at, as well as the experienced BR guys to help you along.
Joel
 
The club I plan on shooting at is Dietzville near New Braunfules. I stopped by and talked to Mr. Dietz and asked if he knew of any used BR rifles and he said no, but their season opens in March and that one might come up and he'd give me a call. I have a rest, bag, range reloading equipment and some homemade flags. I havent had the chance to attend a BR match yet but would like to. I've read all the books, have a 300yd range at my house and would like to get my feet wet. I'm just having trouble trying to pick out a used rifle off the internet. I know there is a large learning curve that I need to overcome, but I dont want to buy a rifle and regret it later after I've learned a little more. Thanks for all the advice, Cody
 
Cody,
You sound like you've got your head on straight,and a place to shoot,and a BR club close by,that's great.The used BR gun market is driven by the new BR gun market.The guns that are en vogue today are mostly Bats with ejectors,these actions are glued into low rider high tech stocks like the Scoville,Leonard,or Scarborough.Most have been built as light as possible to accomodate the Leupold LCS or March Scopes.A new rig like this can exceed $3500 without scope,and take up to a year to put together.
The guns you will usually find on the used market in the 1200-1800 range will have non-ejector actions glued into older style 28oz or so fiberglass stocks that were originally built to carry a Weaver or Leupold 36 scope. What's wrong with these guns---Nothing really! Just not state of the art!
As far as value goes ,a non-abused $1500 Panda in a fiberglass stock will always be worth $1500,so you can't lose.Used Leupold 36's will always be worth $500,Weavers hold value as well. Will you be able to compete with a rifle like this? If you have a good barrel and good bullets the answer is Yes!
Talk to the guys that you think you might want to buy your rifle from,ask if they would mind helping you with load information,cleaning tips,shooting techniques,etc.Ask if there is anything wrong with the gun and why they are selling it. You'll soon know if it's the guy you want to buy a used rifle from.
Joel
p.s. make shure it's a light varmint/sporter with a 3" wide forend.
 
Check out a match

Sometimes there are excellent deals to be had at a match > and you might learn something too! Take your wallet with you, you might need some bullets and other stuff. Save shipping.:p
 
Of course you could always ask if it will ag in the one's, under all conditions? :D
 
This is one sweet rifle and an excellent rifle.
http://www.benchrest.com/cgi-bin/cl...esults_format=long&db_id=7502&query=retrieval

BAT chrome molly 3lug RB/LP no eject action, New Bartlein 5 groove Stainless 1-14” twist 6mm barrel, chambered by Steve Kostanich in 6ppc .262” neck, Jewell trigger and Kelbly Klub stock. Gun shoots very well, and only 40 rounds on this barrel. $1750.00 + shipping to your FFL

Solid owner as well as Builder. NICE RIG..! Hope it's still available.
Cody, The people here WON'T stear ya wrong.

Your on a pathway to great fun and awakening.
cale
 
Thanks for all the help, I got my pm's. Steve I'll email you Monday (something wrong with my email at home). I need to save up a little more $ (always something comming up getting in the way of my long awaited first BR rifle)
 
My Take

Codeman

Lots of good advice in the preceding posts. When i started shooting, i bought a used rifle from i guy i knew, put on a new barrel and never looked back. After a couple of years of looking around and talking to guys, i bought a new gun. Sold the old one for what i had in it, I wished i had that gun back, i didn't realize how good it shot until later. After you shoot a couple years, then buy a new gun after you have more experience if you want.

Also the gun has to be shipped to an FFL, so why not go with the idea someone had above and ship it to a gunsmith in your area and have him evaluate it?

Good Luck
Dave
 
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