What is the purpose of an inner "C" stop ring?

Dennis,
What are you saying about lack of shoulder diameter? I just measured a 1909 Argentine and the OD of the front ring is 1.410"
Butch
 
Stuart Otteson "The Bolt Action" chapter one, explans the model 98 inner collar (C-ring) in great detail. What would you call the inner collar on the Rem 788, the O-ring.

John
 
Butch Lambert said:
Dennis,
What are you saying about lack of shoulder diameter? I just measured a 1909 Argentine and the OD of the front ring is 1.410"
Butch
Click to expand...

I have seen more military barrels with 1.1 inch shoulders on 1.1 inch threads and 1 inch shoulders on 1 inch threads than I have with shouldered barrels...
 
Dennis,
Go back to the accurate reloading forum. The answer is there. A scanned copy of Mr. Mauser's patent on the C ring. His patent states that it is for gas control purposes. You might read J.D. Steele's posts, he is a little crusty, but he is a smart man. I just removed a barrel from a 1909 Argentine. It measures 1.255 at the shoulder where it mates to the receiver.
I have learned a lot from this thread.
Butch
 
Well if it's only purpose was gas control I don't understand why so many military barrels were fitted hard against it... and as far as gas handling the big safety features are the holes in the bottom of the bolt body and the large flanged bolt shroud. Blow a case and gas is coming back 'c' ring or no 'c' ring... it really does not matter if it has a purpose of gas control as it is an integral of the action that no one is going to remove anyway. Whether is was intentional or not the ring to bolt face measurement is very consistent from unaltered rifle to unaltered rifle and would make mass production of chambered barrels much easier with no fitting required, just sight alignment after the barrel was spun on.

It really doesn't matter a fat rats ass on how barrels are fitted on the ring or on the shoulder if they are both close... it is not going to affect accuracy that much or affect gas handling... If a customer wants to pay for the extra work of facing the action and cutting the thread relief I'll do it. I will still fit hard against the ring and lightly on the face as Prator taught me 44 years ago.

It's still only a M98 in the end... ;)

... and it has been an informative thread... :)
 
Dennis,
It has been an informative thread. I have friends on both sides of the issue am not happy that it is kinda out of hand. I have a lot of respect for you and hope you don't think that
I have any bad opinions of you.
Butch
 
I have a number of barrels from FN actions and none show contact
on shoulders. I also have a barreled action also FN which a .001
feeler guage can be placed between the barrel shoulder and action face.
It has never been apart.
 
It's German. Why make it simple when with a lot of effort you can make it needlessly complex? Germans don't believe in KISS engineering.
 
The Montana Rifle Co. asked on the accurate reloading gunsmith forum for suggestions when designing the model 99. This model ended up with a Mauser type c-ring. Their ring is coned on the bolt side. When threading and chambering a barrel, one does not need to cut a cone in the barrel, nor make an extractor cut. This makes a much simpler job when chambering a new barrel for a action with a coned bolt and claw extractor
 
Several times in this thread it has been mentioned that the gas vents on the mod 98 mauser are on the bottom of the bolt. Well they are when the bolt is open. When the bolt is closed as when firing the vents are on the left side in line with the left raceway. At least they are on my mod 98's. Jon
 
I see Butch has spilled this over to AR:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9411043/m/6531089131/p/1

There are no right answers.
We come away with what we want to come away with.

What I got:
The C ring takes the force of the breech as a cantilever. It is compliant.
The large ring takes the should one end in compression.
Hit either one, and the the barrel can be turned further, but with the large ring, there is no measurable axial movement, just rotational as thread crush compliance allows the last turning.

Why does it matter if the C ring is compliant?
It affects a few things:
1) If the C ring is compliant and one wants both the large ring and the C ring to make contact, then the C ring makes contact first.
2) If the C ring is compliant, it can act like a lock washer.
3) If the C ring is compliant, and one wants the soldered on open sights to clock straight up [interchangeable barrels] then margin for allowable error in clocking is over the range of not only thread crush, but has increased to thread crush PLUS C ring cantilevered bending.
 
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