Weighing .22 rimfire ammunition

J

JimReed1948

New member
I did a few searches here but did not find anything on this. I'm sure it has been discussed many time and I'm just not searching it correctly.

On quality benchrest ammunition Eley, Lapua, etc., are shooters weighing out the rounds? If so, how close a weight are you running it out, (i.e. .01, .001).
 
I would think it would be exceedingly difficult to determine anything by weighing with all the wax all over and I'm sure bullet weight is all over the place, let alone the case weights. The only think I have ever found that made sense to weigh is the powder going into Center Fire reloads. That do make a difference.
 
I understand what you mean. However some of the matches I have been to you can tell by looking at the ammo boxes with the notes on them, a lot of thought and work went into that box of ammo.
 
A friend who sorts his sorts by rim thickness and has that noted on his boxes. he didn't say if he weighed. Probably one is a whole lot better off learning to read their windflags precicely.
 
Sorting by rim thickness: we were talking about this just yesterday. I've heard of many people doing this and swearing that it improves accuracy. My question has always been, "Why does it improve accuracy?", and I've never gotten a satisfactory answer. As a beginning benchrest shooter I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff and understand what's going on. If anyone can clear this one up for me I'd appreciate it.
 
The theory is a more consistent ignition occurs when sorted by rim thickness. I have done this, separating into lots with 0 variation (0.001" resolution) and frankly I have not seen any advantage. It might be more mental than physical, but then again, perhaps I am just mental.
 
I think it may work better if one can adjust the headspace on their rifle. I think there is an optimal head space pegged to a rim thickness, if one can maintain that headspace perhaps this lends itself to more consistent ignition.
 
I shoot 100 yrd. rimfire pill shooting, (aspirin) Sunday mornings with 9 other shooters. Ammo varies from the Eley red box tenex all the way down to Aguila Target with Lapua, SK and Wolf. My 40X with a Krieger custom barrel and Holland stock likes Eley Target at $4.30 a box. I have sorted by weight and rim thickness and I didn't see any difference in group size. I open a box and shoot it without even thinking about it. Reading the wind, equipment, your position in relation to the rested rifle, along with a balanced gun is far more important than sorting ammo. The nut behind the wheel is most of the problem with accuracy in my opinion.
 
On the good stuff ( expensive) does not seem to matter, except for your own peace of mind. Now on the inexpensive side of things (cci blazer ect) it does have some effect. There just as many who swear by the practices of rim thickness and weight sorting as those who say nay to it.
 
I hate to weigh in here because as pointed out, everyone has their own opinion. Well if weighing or sorting by rim thickness does anything, it should improve velocity variations.

Here are some experiments I did and real data. These links are on RFC so some may not want to bother to look.

Rim Thickness versus Velocity

and

Weighing Vs Rim Thickness
See posts 5, 15 and 16.

I find no correlation between weight or rim thickness and velocity but there is correlation between velocity and vertical dispersion.
 
Well in our game ammo is limited to 7.00 a box max. Every round I shoot in a match is weight sorted. The rounds that are culled because of excessive weight variance do shoot to a different point of impact. I have tested them. Eley Club has huge variations. Even one flyer can cost you a match.

wt-sort.jpg


Practicing what I preach.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had planned on shooting this morning and decided last night to do some sorting by weight. I sorted 4 boxes of SK Match and these weight of the rounds went from 49.9 up to 51.9. The vast majority weighed in at 51.5 or 51.6. These two boxes did shoot very well, but not quite as accurate as my Eley Match that I did not sort.

For those of you that do weight out your rounds, how do you handle the left overs? Target practice only, warming up the barrel before the first match round? Do you group all your weights together by weight only and when you have a box of that weight, your ready to go?
 
They are used for barrel fouling. My 40X needs about 10 rounds.
 
CHRISTOPHER said:
You will never learn to shoot with inaccurate amo
You will never know if it is the wind casusing the problem or the amo
The weight variation come from the projectile 80% of the time
Click to expand...

Agreed also the same goes for wind flags and a good rest. There is a sweet spot with SK Plus and Wolf Match Target ammo reasonable performance at a affordable price. In fact our game is built on this ammo. Yes we test lots and weight sort but the occasional the flyer does creep in. Brings in a element of luck that keeps things stirred up and fun. I personally have a tendency to forget that shooting is supposed to be fun...

We are shooting in the mid to high 240's on the RBA target with this ammo. No it will not win a major match but we are out drawing the other rimfire benchrest matches 3 to 1 in attendance at our range. (ARA Nationals and PSL excluded) With this economy affordable does matter for a lot of our shooters including me.

Our ammo policy for next year.

Here is the announcement for ammo restrictions for the 2011 season.

To all,

After due consideration, the match directors have decided to consolidate the approved ammunition for the 2011 season. In an earlier announcement we described the reasoning behind limited ammunition choices to "mid tier ammo". As the number of shooters attracted our game has risen, so too has the level of responsibilities on the support staff to effectively manage a safe, enjoyable, and competitive shooting experience. As a way of simplifying the game, we have decided to limit "approved .22 rimfire" to the SK line of ammunition which also includes the "Wolf" brand. This approval extends across all the SK line of ammunition including; SK jag Standard Plus, SK jag Pistol Match, SK jag rifle match , Wolf Match, and Wolf match extra. By granting a blanket approval by brand we are not going to place any cost restrictions on the ammo. We will simply accept any marginal price fluctuations for the 2011 calendar year.

Common sources for match ammunition besides local sports shops include Midway (http://www.midwayusa.com), Champion Shooters Supply (http://www.championshooters.com), Champions Choice (http://www.champchoice.com), and Grafts (http://www.grafs.com).

We wanted to get this announcement out as quickly as possible since this is the time of year that many shooters begin to test ammo and make purchasing decisions for next years shooting season. As our attendance numbers demonstrate, quite a few folks like the game as it is. We think this simplification will just enhance what we are already doing without placing an undue hardship on anybody. We hope to see all of you that can make it to our last match of the year on October 9th.

Best Regards

Glenn & Bruce
 
CHRISTOPHER said:
GUYS I believe good guns demands the best amo you can afford
Now limiting to sk amo sounds grate
The best amo will be with the heavier weights and that will leave a hell of alot of lighter ones
The other thing it may be hard to police . SKs and Center X and other LAPUER S LOOK the same
The SAME BACH amo may have to be supplied to ALL the shooters at the benchs so they can sight in
before the comp No other amo on the benches
Click to expand...

As you probably already know Center X mikes wider than SK. It is a compromise between the Old Midas L and M. There are also driving band differences- looks like a different bullet mold. Midas L and M use different lube. But I am not the expert that my co-match director is.

Glen really is Dr. Hachey and is an expert in manufacturing processes. He also is a 2 time RBA National Champion and a ARA National Champion. In Glen's own words"For any restricted framework such as we have in Vintage Benchrest to work, we must rely primarily on the honor system amongst our fellow competitors. The urge to win can sometimes overcome common judgment and we know of cases where the temptation to use high end ammo got the better of some shooters at other clubs with similar ammo restrictions. As match directors we are not naive to the potential of this practice. All we can do is assure all shooters that we are and will continue to monitor what ammo is being used on the line at our matches. We have an extensive reference collection of ammo extending at least a decade as well as an extensive array of definitive tests that most folks could not fathom. Glenn is one of the few “Westerner” visitors to ever be invited into the actual rimfire production and evaluation facilities in Finland and Germany. Glenn knows Lapua and SK ammunition from the inside out. He has also studied and collected match ammo from around the world for over a decade. Bottom line, we have zero tolerance for using “illegal” ammunition. Don’t bring it to the match. Each shooter is responsible for checking this out thoroughly so ignorance is not an alibi. If you have a question, that is what the match directors are for. This discussion was not meant to sound accusatory, it is meant to reassure shooters that we have every intention of keeping this game fair and above board."

This is no BS... Glen knows ammo!!!

Not every gun shoots supplied ammo well. We have been down this path before at other clubs. We took from our shooting experience at other clubs and kept what worked and discarded what didn't. This way a shooter can find a lot that will shoot well in their rifle. We are passionate about Vintage Benchrest. A lot sweat and care goes into our game.

This restricting ammo to SK and Wolf was because the difficulty in distinguishing between RWS grades and Eley round nose grades. Is that Club or some Tenex that used the same lube and bullet mold?

Bruce
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bruce, you beat me to it - Vintage Benchrest is growing at our club, and a cursory search on line shows that it is popular at other clubs, too.

The rest of you that advise about using great ammo in great guns need to pay attention, at least in this case - the rules of the game don't permit premium ammunition, just pretty good ammo. There's a reason for that, Bruce has explained it well enough.

Y'all that need wind flags and $20 ammo are askeered to shoot with us.
 
BS...It's good to save money but skeered is the perfect reason for vintage BR...It aint the registered match shooters...
 
Boys Boys it is not us vs. them. We are all competitive shooters. Nobody is scared. I like shooting Vintage Target rifles with some of the nicest people around. Some pictures of my old warriors.
Annie 1607 in a 1411 stock.
1607.jpg

My 40X
40X.jpg

My custom M12
m12.jpg

My custom Suhl
bkl.jpg


And I am intrigued by 10/22 and clones. Tony's guns are the real deal. I want to test how far they can go...
Qoute from Tony Kidd "Once upon a time...

In the spring of '96 USAMU International and Olympic Rifle gunsmith Chuck Gartland and I were playing with the 10/22 rifle. Gene Clark and Simon Reynolds had just returned from England where they had tested a dozen Anschutz barreled actions at the Eley plant in hopes of finding the best lots of rimfire ammunition available for the AMU International Rifle Team. They found it! 1.5 million rounds of it! By the way USAMU now holds the Eley plant record for smallest group aggregate.

I have always wanted to visit England and was talking with Simon, who at the time was an English citizen, about his travels. We were looking over targets and I noticed that the groups from the Anschutz barreled actions were no smaller than Chucks tricked out 10/22. That $150 rifle shot great but that $10 trigger needed some serious help.

I knew I could improve on the Ruger single stage geometry and make a better hammer and sear. However no matter what I did, although better than stock, it was still a Ruger. I came to the conclusion that you just cant put enough parts in a Ruger trigger to make it good. One thing led to another and before I knew it I was redesigning the assembly. Obviously it had to be two stage, light, repeatable, and reliable.

While working on the prototype trigger, rifle shooter extraordinaire, Troy Lawton, came to me and asked if I could help him with his 10/22 trigger. His trigger was about 1 1/2 lbs and worked in some guns but not this gun. I told him about the new trigger and he wanted to check it out. Originally the 10/22 was going to be a Smallbore Silhouette rifle used for windy conditions. Using the 10/22 would allow Troy to engage targets quickly when the wind settled. His primary rifle would be an Anschutz bolt gun.

After a week with the prototype, Troy called to tell me the 10/22 with the KID trigger was going to be his primary rifle. It was as accurate as his Anschutz and the trigger was as good as his Anschutz so why shoot the Anschutz? Three weeks later Troy won the Smallbore Silhouette Nationals. This had never been done with an autoloader much less a 10/22.

I got busy and developed a safety and bolt hold open. I applied for and finally received a patent for the KID trigger. I ventured into a couple of bad business deals over the next few years and began to think I would never see this great trigger come to market. I owe a great deal of thanks to my family and many good friends for supporting, believing in, and pushing me to make this thing happen. What a learning experience this has been. But WOW! it's here and I have met a lot great people because of it. "
 
what is "Vintage Benchrest"? are there rules posted anywhere? Thanks, Douglas
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top