Watching Wind Flags

[CharlieH]

much more complicated story. Either you get a quick understanding of it, you are up in the results, or you don't understand, you shoot bad all day long trying this or that condition and end the day completely tired and disgusted.

For me, thats pretty much it as to the flags.
And as to the shooting flyers, that can also be a complicated part of the story. Only way I know to start to get out of that ditch fast is to start eliminating things, first the question is it you or your equipment. Fastest way to do that is swap guns with a friend.

It's not uncommon for several of my benchrest shots (at 100 and 200 yds.) to look like flyers, and I don't know the cause. Oftentimes, I see that regardless of the load.

One think I'm wondering about is my wind-flag watching technique — or lack thereof. I don't seem to be good at trying to watch all the flags at about the same time. At one time, I focused a lot on the farthest away flag, then a top-level shooter seemed to pooh-pooh that idea. Recently, I've been focusing a lot on the closest flag (sometimes I pretty much ignore the farther-away flags); now, another good shooter seems to say that he focuses on the farther-away flags.

I'm lost as it relates to those flyers. It's easy for me to think they're likely the result of combination of several issues. But, I wonder how y'all utilize your flags. Comments?

 

[Hotrod]

It's not uncommon for several of my benchrest shots (at 100 and 200 yds.) to look like flyers, and I don't know the cause. Oftentimes, I see that regardless of the load.

One think I'm wondering about is my wind-flag watching technique — or lack thereof. I don't seem to be good at trying to watch all the flags at about the same time. At one time, I focused a lot on the farthest away flag, then a top-level shooter seemed to pooh-pooh that idea. Recently, I've been focusing a lot on the closest flag (sometimes I pretty much ignore the farther-away flags); now, another good shooter seems to say that he focuses on the farther-away flags.

I'm lost as it relates to those flyers. It's easy for me to think they're likely the result of combination of several issues. But, I wonder how y'all utilize your flags. Comments?

Hunter,
Sorry I'm just now seeing the original post. Yes I agree with all the posts that a missed wind shift can cause unexpected poi, but here is another (of the many, many things that can cause fliers). A fellow shooter and I were discussing reloading practices and he told me that I needed to be measuring the bullet seating depth on EVERY finished cartridge, not just random samples. I found out that probably one in ten was .001 or more off, usually under. Since I started checking every cartridge for seating depth and culling out those that are more than .0005 off I have not had a single unexplained flyer. I put those that are out of spec in the fouler bucket. I still get misses due to missed flags, but I can usually call those as they occur. I no longer get the totally unexplained flyers. Just something else to think about/check.

Another thing would be anything that's not tight on the front rest. I loosened the elevation lock in a match 3 weeks ago to raise the rest and forgot to lock it back. I figured it out after the fourth shot.

I hope I can get beck to RBGC this summer, maybe for the July group match.

 

[Hunter]

A fellow shooter and I were discussing reloading practices and he told me that I needed to be measuring the bullet seating depth on EVERY finished cartridge, not just random samples. I found out that probably one in ten was .001 or more off, usually under. Since I started checking every cartridge for seating depth and culling out those that are more than .0005 off I have not had a single unexplained flyer.
...
I hope I can get beck to RBGC this summer, maybe for the July group match.

What tool(s) do you use to check bullet seating depth? I use a "nut" that looks like this https://www.reloadingsolutions.com/products/sinclair-1-hex-style-bullet-comparator, and oftentimes get > .001 difference by measuring the same loaded round a second time.

BTW, I hope to see you at RBGC in July.

 

[Williwaw]

I don't seem to be good at trying to watch all the flags at about the same time.

Me neither ... when I started. So I just put out three and added one at a time till I got up to six. Now at six I sometimes catch myself having not paid attention to one. I have one off colored flag and it gets rotated to that position to shake things up.

 

[Hotrod]

What tool(s) do you use to check bullet seating depth? I use a "nut" that looks like this https://www.reloadingsolutions.com/products/sinclair-1-hex-style-bullet-comparator, and oftentimes get > .001 difference by measuring the same loaded round a second time.

BTW, I hope to see you at RBGC in July.

I'm currently using the Davidson seating depth checker from PMA mounted on a Mitoyo caliper. They are caliber specific, mine are 6mm. I have both the body and the base - I like the Davidson base because it holds the case in place so it can't move around while checking seating depth. I have one on a Mitoyo digital caliper and one on a Mitoyo dial caliper, but mostly just use the digital. The dial is more of a backup in case of a dead battery at a match.

I occasionally experience the same problem of getting different results measuring the same loaded round multiple times. I think this is mainly due to inconsistent pressure on the caliper. Another cause is loaded round concentricity. If the loaded round is not straight (either the case or the bullet) you will get different readings when you rotate the cartridge while taking measurements.

Seating depth body:
https://www.pmatool.com/seating-depth-checkers/

Base:
https://www.pmatool.com/copy-of-davidson-seating-depth-checker-base/

 

[g n brezinski]

thank you..i am going to make up some wind flags this week end i think.

 

[treece]

The sooner the bullet is pushed off course, the bigger the group. Close flags over long flags.

After the bullets stabilize, less effect the wind has on the bullets.

First time Iv heard it explained that way. Always heard that the closer flags were more important but didn't understand the actual cause. That makes perfect sense because like you said , that's the longest point if it gets pushed there, the closer to the target, the bullet is closing the distance fast as it's already stabblized

 

[Pete Wass]

Hunter,
Sorry I'm just now seeing the original post. Yes I agree with all the posts that a missed wind shift can cause unexpected poi, but here is another (of the many, many things that can cause fliers). A fellow shooter and I were discussing reloading practices and he told me that I needed to be measuring the bullet seating depth on EVERY finished cartridge, not just random samples. I found out that probably one in ten was .001 or more off, usually under. Since I started checking every cartridge for seating depth and culling out those that are more than .0005 off I have not had a single unexplained flyer. I put those that are out of spec in the fouler bucket. I still get misses due to missed flags, but I can usually call those as they occur. I no longer get the totally unexplained flyers. Just something else to think about/check.

Another thing would be anything that's not tight on the front rest. I loosened the elevation lock in a match 3 weeks ago to raise the rest and forgot to lock it back. I figured it out after the fourth shot.

I hope I can get beck to RBGC this summer, maybe for the July group match.

Perhaps the most overlooked area of reloading and one of the most important. All one has to do is test a ladder of seating depths by .001" increments to see that in fact .001" matters a lot. Exact powder charges and exact seated bullets; can't go wrong. One can't overdo anything with regard to loading. Everything matters.