was creighton audette a br shooter ?
- Thread starter rsmithsr
- Start date
he is one I am trying to prove wrong.
Audette was team captain of the us palma team, built hunting
and competition rifles but I have never seen nor heard of him in benchrest.
if you read it, it implies that since audette was a benchrest shooter, the ladder load development
process will not work with common rifles.
pure bs IMHO.
thanks
Audette was team captain of the us palma team, built hunting
and competition rifles but I have never seen nor heard of him in benchrest.
if you read it, it implies that since audette was a benchrest shooter, the ladder load development
process will not work with common rifles.
pure bs IMHO.
thanks
There is so much wrong here...... "proving" is a non-term when dealing with folks who don't question bald statements like "applying lube to bullets decreases velocity because.... friction decreased..... blahhh blahhh blahhh"
And "accuracy testing" with Rock River AR????
c'mon
And "accuracy testing" with Rock River AR????
c'mon
Asa Yam
New member
If you can wait for an answer....
I know Middleton Tompkins and Creighton were friends. Seem to recall that Mid said he had fired BR matches on occasion (and won a few), not sure if Creighton did. Will try to remember to ask Mid in early February when I see him next.
Most likely, Winchester Model 70. Service Rifle in his era was either the M-1 Garand, or the M-14.
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vtmarmot
P Magoon, Livin' Free NH
I think that perhaps some of his writings in "Precision Shooting" might offer a clue. Myself, I have no indication that he was. I met him a time or two at turkey shoots at the Weathersfield (Vermont) Rod and Gun Club. That's what passed for shooting competitions in the vicinity of Springfield, Vermont, our mutual home town. I recall admiring a beautiful bolt action hunting rifle that he had just completed. I had never seen anything that nice. Being a machine tool town, Springfield had a lot of folks that liked to tinker with guns, but 'chuck and deer rifles were the main emphasis.
I do have a beautiful rebarreled Mauser 98 that Mr. Audette did with a full stock and a 20 inch .30-06 barrel. He built it for Bud Singleton of Proctorsville, VT and it was stocked by Dave Farr (Farrar?) of Chester, VT. I've attached a few pictures. I bought it from the estate when Bud died.
I do have a beautiful rebarreled Mauser 98 that Mr. Audette did with a full stock and a 20 inch .30-06 barrel. He built it for Bud Singleton of Proctorsville, VT and it was stocked by Dave Farr (Farrar?) of Chester, VT. I've attached a few pictures. I bought it from the estate when Bud died.
Attachments
thanks ..so far
I think al was referring to the link, where a guy was pretending to use
the aduette ladder to work up a load for an ar....probably a target rifle, not a 16" blasting toy.
I see michelle every now and then at the range, i'll try to ask
her to do some investigating. but ask MID when you see him
I think al was referring to the link, where a guy was pretending to use
the aduette ladder to work up a load for an ar....probably a target rifle, not a 16" blasting toy.
I see michelle every now and then at the range, i'll try to ask
her to do some investigating. but ask MID when you see him
RRA NM ar is more than a 16" toy
I own two RRA national match AR's and they will shoot 10 shot 100yd groups of .400. Not benchrest quality but not your average black gun either. I use them at local iron sight benchrest shoots and they have been very successful. Those .400 groups were achieved with 69 Sierra Mkgs and by adding a picatinny rail with scope to the A2 rear sight handle.
I own two RRA national match AR's and they will shoot 10 shot 100yd groups of .400. Not benchrest quality but not your average black gun either. I use them at local iron sight benchrest shoots and they have been very successful. Those .400 groups were achieved with 69 Sierra Mkgs and by adding a picatinny rail with scope to the A2 rear sight handle.
Being a Palma Team Captain is a full time-time part time job and I doubt it would leave any time for another shooting discipline during this time. Outside of doing that, being a gunsmith gives you chances at shooting all other disciplines including benchrest. Developing a ladder test doesn't sound like a benchrest thing to me, it sounds like it's more of a "finding a way to test your rifles" kind of a thing. My shooting buddy and often times roommate was a friend of Creighton and a member of the team that Creighton was captain of, in fact he still shoots Creighton's Swing Palma rifle. He says Creighton could be a real asshole, like not allowing Pete to attend an award ceremony (in which he had won a 2nd or 3rd place) that was attended by Prince Charles. Since Pete had won an award the British were very offended by this but a "team meeting" was more important to Creighton. I'll see if I can get more information from Pete ref. the benchrest. I'll see him in a couple of weeks.
Asa Yam
New member
Berger Southwest Nationals long range match (not a benchrest event) in Phoenix starts on Thursday, Wednesday's event is 3x 600 yard matches (mid-range), which is not part of the long range aggregate. (NRA definition of "long range" competition is any match or series of matches which only occur at distances beyond 600 yards.) Will ask Mid about Creighton and BR shooting then.
Asa Yam
New member
Believe one intent of the ladder test was to quantify the effect of case volume on bullet performance downrange. IIRC, the conclusion was given a case of uniform external dimensions to its kin, but weighed more, the result was the weight difference (in grains) was equal to about a 12% grain weight change in powder charge due to less internal volume. Note that brass in a lot may not have identical external dimensions, so differences in the extractor groove cut can be the cause of a weight change.
I talked to MID Saturday. as ASA mentioned he was at the 1000 yard range and we were at the 100/200 br range.
his answer as to if Audette was a br shooter,
his answer was a very clear two words...
the first word began with a "B"
and the second word began with a "S"
it was not BENCHREST SHOOTER
onwards and upwards
his answer as to if Audette was a br shooter,
his answer was a very clear two words...
the first word began with a "B"
and the second word began with a "S"
it was not BENCHREST SHOOTER
onwards and upwards
Creighton Audette
...old thread. But I thought I'd add something for the record.
What is now commonly called a Ladder Test or Audette Test was not "invented" by Creighton Audette. In one of his articles he writes that it was shared with him by a benchrest shooting friend in California and he referred to it as the "20 shot method". As used by Audette, it was shot at 300 yards with a scope off a front bag, but off his shoulder prone in early morning, windless conditions. Audette as a highpower competitor probably had someone in the pits marking shot numbers.
Other's over the years have used variations such as ILD (Randolph's Incremental Load Development Method) where a chrono at 100 or 200 yds was substituted for POI changes that were not as discernable at short range, or OCW where three shots at a given charge were used instead of one.
I think the beauty of the 20 shot method is the simplicity of a minimum number of shots that satisfied the high standards of one of the most critically thinking shooters of our generation.
...old thread. But I thought I'd add something for the record.
What is now commonly called a Ladder Test or Audette Test was not "invented" by Creighton Audette. In one of his articles he writes that it was shared with him by a benchrest shooting friend in California and he referred to it as the "20 shot method". As used by Audette, it was shot at 300 yards with a scope off a front bag, but off his shoulder prone in early morning, windless conditions. Audette as a highpower competitor probably had someone in the pits marking shot numbers.
Other's over the years have used variations such as ILD (Randolph's Incremental Load Development Method) where a chrono at 100 or 200 yds was substituted for POI changes that were not as discernable at short range, or OCW where three shots at a given charge were used instead of one.
I think the beauty of the 20 shot method is the simplicity of a minimum number of shots that satisfied the high standards of one of the most critically thinking shooters of our generation.
please do not mention ocw when talking about precision rifle loading.
it is a round robin joke as most have no clue about wind nor flags.
it is shooting 3 shot groups not a single shot ladder.
it is a round robin joke as most have no clue about wind nor flags.
it is shooting 3 shot groups not a single shot ladder.
speedygonzalez
Member
Creighton audette
FOR ALL YOU FOLKS THAT WANT THE AUDETTE STORY HERE YA GO.
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW.
http://freepdfhosting.com/bd7fee7eed.pdf
OR
COPY AND PASTE THE LINK ABOVE DOWNLOAD AND SAVE.
I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE KNOWN CREIGHTON AND ABLE TO TEST HIS THEORIES INDOORS WITH A RAIL GUN. BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY HE SENT ME THE REMAINING CASE CHECKERS HE HAD LEFT IN HIS INVENTORY AND SAID "I WAS THE ONLY BENCHREST SHOOTER THAT APPRECIATED HIS EFFORT INTO CASE SELECTION FOR ACCURACY!" I CAN TELL YOU THIS FOR SURE "IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!"
KEEP'EM SMALL,
SPEEDY GONZALEZ
FOR ALL YOU FOLKS THAT WANT THE AUDETTE STORY HERE YA GO.
CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW.
http://freepdfhosting.com/bd7fee7eed.pdf
OR
COPY AND PASTE THE LINK ABOVE DOWNLOAD AND SAVE.
I WAS FORTUNATE TO HAVE KNOWN CREIGHTON AND ABLE TO TEST HIS THEORIES INDOORS WITH A RAIL GUN. BEFORE HE PASSED AWAY HE SENT ME THE REMAINING CASE CHECKERS HE HAD LEFT IN HIS INVENTORY AND SAID "I WAS THE ONLY BENCHREST SHOOTER THAT APPRECIATED HIS EFFORT INTO CASE SELECTION FOR ACCURACY!" I CAN TELL YOU THIS FOR SURE "IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!"
KEEP'EM SMALL,
SPEEDY GONZALEZ
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In that 1986 edition Seely Masker describes the method he uses to break-in a barrel.