virgin clean necks vs carbon fouled.

C

CMaier

Guest
In my years of reading here before joining, i have seen several post of how
well new brass shoots, either on its first firing or when fire forming with a bullet.
i have seen the most clean necks with a twist or two of a bore brush.
So you are shooting "clean" but carbon fouled necks.
The new brass is the only time the brass is shot with true clean necks.
( feel free to correct me on that one).
Now we have ss pins to clean with, which produce virgin clean necks.
while time works against a short range group shooter, score can preload.
Has anyone done any testing on shooting ss pin cleaned brass (necks) ?
 
Assignment: Look up Gary Ocock's records, and note his position in the BR Hall of Fame. I mention these because he does not clean the inside of his case necks....at all.
 
Lol...i guess that counts.
So far i have one for pins and one for brush and now one don't clean.

Boyd Allen said:
Assignment: Look up Gary Ocock's records, and note his position in the BR Hall of Fame. I mention these because he does not clean the inside of his case necks....at all.
Click to expand...
 
I think Boyd hit the nail on the head!

In fact, for a while I was ultrasonically cleaning my cases with home-brew mix of water, vinegar and a bit of liquid soap. My necks got so squeeky clean I had bullets scouring and even cold welded cases to the mandrel of my LEE collet die! Needless to say, cases can be too clean!
 
Sorry,
That runs contrary to the first time fired excellent groups posts.

a lee collet die in BR SHOOTING ??

Normmatzen said:
I think Boyd hit the nail on the head!

In fact, for a while I was ultrasonically cleaning my cases with home-brew mix of water, vinegar and a bit of liquid soap. My necks got so squeeky clean I had bullets scouring and even cold welded cases to the mandrel of my LEE collet die! Needless to say, cases can be too clean!
Click to expand...
 
Anytime i have bare brass necks i dip them in the imperial dry neck lube- the graphite with bb mix. Seating force is the same according to my hydro press
 
No one that I am aware of in the field of short range benchrest cleans their necks to the point where the powder fouling is completely removed. I run a worn out bore brush in a couple times, which only gets rid of the loose stuff. I would mention a couple of things other here. New necks have more friction, and new cases have more room around them in the chamber. The good groups that you have referred to are not the best groups so much as they are surprisingly good considering what should be keeping them from being that way. No one that I know would shoot his record groups with cases that he was fire forming. Most would want them to have been fired at least twice (speaking of the PPC) . As far as the PPC goes, shots fired to form those cases from .220 Russian are at lower velocity and pressure than normal. Perhaps this is the cause that you are looking for. It could just as easily be that as what you are looking at.
 
Thanks boyd. i see that with group, i was hoping to hear from some score guys.
 
Accuracywise...score is the same as group.

Boyd said it pretty darn good. Yes, while fire forming you'll get some really nice groups. In fact, I fire formed on a record target years ago and placed second in the agg. The group where I fire formed wasn't the one that caused me to lose. What I'm going to add is...why concern yourself with this? If you think about the question, that's all it really is - a question. Further, clean cases, dirty cases and all other cases don't make a difference at all in how accurate the rifle shoots. I will say that difficult cases will cause your agg to be larger but that ain't the cases...it's the condition.
 
Score shooter have time to prep cases that group shooters do not have...correct ?
I have been looking a possibly shooting at 600 yds. We currently plink out to 500.
and i have ss pins. I saw a post here early in a thread about a guy that was ss cleaning every time, but he did not
say what he was shooting.

Wilbur said:
Accuracywise...score is the same as group.

Boyd said it pretty darn good. Yes, while fire forming you'll get some really nice groups. In fact, I fire formed on a record target years ago and placed second in the agg. The group where I fire formed wasn't the one that caused me to lose. What I'm going to add is...why concern yourself with this? If you think about the question, that's all it really is - a question. Further, clean cases, dirty cases and all other cases don't make a difference at all in how accurate the rifle shoots. I will say that difficult cases will cause your agg to be larger but that ain't the cases...it's the condition.
Click to expand...
 
Peter Smith shot very well the last 2 yrs. In Oct. he won the 2 gun at WWCCA. Only the second Canadian to accomplish this....
He has the dirtiest cases I have ever seen. I always wondered how he could be done reloading before the rest of us.
Never use a bronze brush in Brass. That's from Jack Neary. Sinclair makes nylon brushes for the inside of the neck.
I stopped cleaning inside and out side of the neck. Outside just a wipe on a rag.
But, as Jack says the primer pockets(Precision Rifleman Mag.) are part of the ignition system. Most shooters use the Sinclair BR primer pocket reamer. It is a set size. No adjustment.... If there is an adjustment, it will always come loose.
Today, my red dot came loose. Just a Red c*nt hair loose. And my shots were dropping. Out of 10 only 3 on paper at 50'. :mad:
 
CMaier said:
Score shooter have time to prep cases that group shooters do not have...correct ?
I have been looking a possibly shooting at 600 yds. We currently plink out to 500.
and i have ss pins. I saw a post here early in a thread about a guy that was ss cleaning every time, but he did not
say what he was shooting.
Click to expand...

Nah. There is enough time to do a complete reload. At a Registered Match, you get at least 30 min. Even if you blast all 20 rounds....


Yea. but, if you shoot both types. You have now reached outside the parameters of your reloading regimen. Your whole system is now suspect.....

Are you shooting 500y with a 6PPC??????????
 
it takes 2-3 HOURS TO CLEAN BRASS WITH PINS.

(maybe with a 6br, currently with 308's and 30'06,various adult toys.
no comp, just plinking))
zippy06 said:
Nah. There is enough time to do a complete reload. At a Registered Match, you get at least 30 min. Even if you blast all 20 rounds....


Yea. but, if you shoot both types. You have now reached outside the parameters of your reloading regimen. Your whole system is now suspect.....

Are you shooting 500y with a 6PPC??????????
Click to expand...
 
I shoot short range, I shoot score also long range bench and I shoot f class open and FTR
I have been very successful in all these class . I do a unbelievable amount of testing. Along with pressure testing . I have never proven cleaning inside your neck to improve anything . And I will also throw in there cleaning Primer Pockets has never proven anything . So I vote don't clean them .
Spend your time on load development and wind reading.
 
Seems to me i read somewhere where Lou actually does a "bit" of shooting.

Lou Murdica said:
I shoot short range, I shoot score also long range bench and I shoot f class open and FTR
I have been very successful in all these class . I do a unbelievable amount of testing. Along with pressure testing . I have never proven cleaning inside your neck to improve anything . And I will also throw in there cleaning Primer Pockets has never proven anything . So I vote don't clean them .
Spend your time on load development and wind reading.
Click to expand...
 
CMaier said:
it takes 2-3 HOURS TO CLEAN BRASS WITH PINS.

(maybe with a 6br, currently with 308's and 30'06,various adult toys.
no comp, just plinking))
Click to expand...

You have posted in the wrong Forum. Try the General or Factory Forum if you don't like the replies. Maybe, they can help you.
 
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I don't know what y'all are talking about when you say clean brass with "pins". What is this...?

AND....there's not a thing wrong with a Lee collet die for any type of shooting.
 
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Wilbur said:
I don't know what y'all are talking about when you say clean brass with "pins". What is this...?
Click to expand...

Wilbur - stainless steel pins as the tumbling media. Doesn't apply to what we do in benchrest but I guess folks use it for routine cleaning:

2_media_pic.jpg


-Lee
www.singleactions.com
 
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