Vintage Remington 20X Target Scope

R

rick983

Guest
I just purchased a vintage 1960s' / 1970s' era 20X target scope made by Remington. If my fading memory isn't failing me, I believe they were made to compete with external mounted Unertl's of the period. In fact, it uses Unertl bases. The scope is very nice and I was wandering if anybody had any history on these scopes they could share? Thanks in advance. :p
 
Remington made just under 1100 of these scopes. The first one's Mike Walker designed and built were 20x with Unertl mounts. Later, not wanting to rely on someone else ( Unertl ) Mike designed his own mounts. About #600 Remington came out with the 24x. You will see later number 20's with both Unertl or Remington mounts. The later mounts are not marked!! On the bottom of the scope ( under the eye piece ) is the serial number. The scopes were shipped in yellow plastic tubes with black caps along with an instruction sheet. Any questions let me know.

Jeff Aberegg
 
rick

Do a search. There was at least one previous thread that included more information and some photos.

I have #286 with the Remington mounts.

Ray
 
Jeff

Yep.

Ray

BRscope001.jpg
 
remington scopes

i have 7 remington scopes, with both unertal and remington mounts, in both

20x and 24x. one is a prototype 24x, mike walker had it with him at a

benchrest match when a lady shooting a 20x remington scope had a problem

and mike swaped scopes with her. there is an x scratched behind the serial

number.

a friend of mine who shot one of these scopes in the 70's, he thinks it is the

best scope he has ever used shooting in heavy mirage.

the remington scopes are just one of many neat things that came out of

the remington custom shop.

does any one remember what issue of PS the great article about the

remington scopes appeared in.
 
coopone said:
i have 7 remington scopes, with both unertal and remington mounts, in both

20x and 24x. one is a prototype 24x, mike walker had it with him at a

benchrest match when a lady shooting a 20x remington scope had a problem

and mike swaped scopes with her. there is an x scratched behind the serial

number.

a friend of mine who shot one of these scopes in the 70's, he thinks it is the

best scope he has ever used shooting in heavy mirage.

the remington scopes are just one of many neat things that came out of

the remington custom shop.

does any one remember what issue of PS the great article about the

remington scopes appeared in.
Click to expand...

I don't remember the issue, but it was and interview with Mike Walker the questions were asked about the scopes. My memory can not be relied on as it is just plain fuzzy. I recall Mike saying something about Redfield having something to do with the manufacture of these scopes? Like I said memory is no long a strong point for me, I could be wrong about the Redfield part.
 
Stephen Perry said:
The Remington scope never was produced in enough quanity to have a staying effect on the BR circut. Nice scope would have been better with internal adjustments. The Lyman BR scope and later Leupold buried the the Remington scope in the relic pile. Nice collectors item.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

I believe there were at least 2 possibly 4 with the internal adjustments before they died although I have never heard if there was a definative opinion about them
 
Remington made their own scopes except for the early one's which had Unertl mounts. Later Mike Walker didn't want to rely on another company for mounts so Remington made their own mounts too.

Jeff Aberegg
 
Stephen...

Stephen Perry said:
For those interested there are a few photos of the Rem 20X scope in 'The Accurate Rifle' book by Warren Page. They are the Cover, p.52, and p. 60. Not sure who made the scope for Remington. Unertl BV 20 and Redfield look similar. Good scope but not able to compete with what was already out there and what was yet to come in BR scopes. Saw a Unertl BV 20 on E-bay today going for $700 if this helps those with a Remington 20X value their's.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

nostalgia seems to have no limit! --Greg
 
Hey Jeff Aberegg....more Rem scope info for you

Jeff,

As fate would have it, I just recently read your 1994 article about the history of Remington BR scopes. As a collector of those scopes, I was very pleased to learn the "real" facts and discard lots of false theory and supposition about the subject.

I would like to add the following information, much of it to further verify your facts:

1. I have two 20x scopes, ser # 042 (yes, 042) and # 283. #042 came with the original tube and is fitted with a blued recoil spring and a rear stop ring. #283 also came with the original tube, original instruction sheet, but does not have a recoil spring or rear stop ring. Both have Remington-type adjustment rings.

2. I have two 24x scopes, ser # 678 and # 691. #678 is fitted with a bright finished aluminum rear stop ring. # 691 does not have the rear ring. Neither has a recoil spring; both have Remington-type rings. Both have Remington-type adjustment rings.

All of these scopes have provenance from their original owners that confirm the configurations to be original.

These scopes, serial numbers, and ring types seem to further confirm your article's facts and certainly validate Mike Walker's memory of the production of these scopes.

As a side note, I am not a BR shooter but I do collect Pre-1969 model 700 rifles and ephemera in all configs other than the 40x series. I have several 700 varmint rifles in various calibers and all are equipped with a third set of base mounting holes out on the barrel to facilitate the mounting of the BR scope mounts. If I am not mistaken, Lacy's model 700 book relates that these rifles were drilled and tapped for use as BR rifles with those type scopes. I do know that the aforementioned scopes, with the appropriate mounts, fit perfectly the varmint config rifles. Not having shot a 40x series rifle, I cannot compare their accuracy to the 700 varmint rifles. I can say that the 700 V rifles are exceptionally accurate by comparison to the normally very accurate standard 700s. It is further my experience that the pre-69 700s are the very best of the 47 year old model 700 line.....especially the fit, finish, and accuracy.....amazing, considering how they were introduced to compete (in both cost and quality) with the old Winchester model 70. They were good enough that Winchester felt the need to redesign the 70 in 1964 to cut production costs.

These scopes are very rarely offered for sale and if found, are usually in excellent condition. I have examined several beyond those in my collection and if I recall correctly, I have only seen one equipped with the Lyman rings. Values, in my experience, run in the $500-700 range for the 20x and $600-800 for the 24x models. The storage tubes, as you suggest, are very, very hard to find and will certainly add to the collectability, if not ultimate value of the scope. I have only encountered one original instruction sheet (aforementioned) and it was specifically for the 20x model. I have never seen a sheet for the 24x.

I hope my ramblings have been of value to someone. I only wish I had discovered your article sooner so I would not have propagated erroneous heresay to other Remington collectors. Thank you for your research on this matter.

Best regards,

Sando
 
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Thanks Sando. Finding a Remington scope with the yellow tube an instruction sheet is VERY hard to find, I only found/heard of three when I did the article. The instruction sheets were different from the 20x to the 24x, an yes, some where in my boxes of "stuff" I have copies but, who knows where they at now. I've said for a long time that I should call Brennan an have him re-run that article as it seems once a year this topic on Remington scopes comes up. I've owned four of them, three 20's an one 24, all were great scopes. The recoil spring was not Remington, something that someone added. When using these or Unertl's one needs to pull it not only back but with a slight twist. This I learned from an old varmint hunter an have always shot my Unertls this way. Another thing is not to compress the recoil spring very tight which I'm sure I'll get "talked" to about this but, it works for me after 30 years of using these scope. When Dick Wright an I use to go to the Cleveland gunshow years ago I talked to a guy who started collecting them after reading the article, think he had like 15 of them. Anyway, if you have any questions email me an hopefully I can be of some help.

Jeff Aberegg
jaberegg@charter.net
 
Coincidence

It's kind of a coincidence that this thread showed back up. I was just following one of these scopes on Ebay, a 24X. It was just the scope and the rings, nothing else. It sold for $700. It appeared to be in excellent condition.
 
No coincidence....well, maybe sorta.

I am the dastardly cretin who bought that scope and the seller was the one who provided me with a copy of Jeff's article from '94. That article both confirmed and refuted information I had gathered over the years about the Remington BR scopes. Thought I would try to track Jeff down on this site to give him a little more info based on my experience.

As I previously stated, I own a few of them and this one was particularly appealing in that the serial number was just 13 away from the other 24x that I currently own.

My estimate of values is based on what I have paid for these items and what I have seen others pay for these items, with and without any accessories. I am by no means, however, an expert appraiser of these or any items....except maybe jumping mules or worn-out chainsaws !

I paid $700 plus shipping and feel good about it. I have paid more for less....:eek:

As I am now Remington BR "scope-poor", there will have to be a really compelling reason for me to buy any more for my collection.

Best regards,

Sando
 
Sando, ya done good. As far as the internal scopes go...... Mike had two, Jimmy had one and Mike made another for someone. Jimmy sold his a few years back. When I bought my first one, it was said, there is less than 500 made and you'll get $500.00 for one. Well, 5 to 7 seems to be the going price though if I ever get the chance to get a 24x in the yellow tube with instruction sheet................. I'd buy one as it's nothing more than money in the bank........... plus you have something hardly anyone else has or has seen before.

Jeff Aberegg
 
Same criteria I used for my second wife.......excellent condition and something hardly anyone else has had. As for her being money in the bank, not a chance.

Thanks, Jeff, for your help. I will send you more info as I continue my search for these odd Remington items.
 
Odd Remington items? See if you can find a Remington loading press made out of the 700 action!!! And don't set up a date with me an your wife's sister is she doesn't have any money!!!!!!! BTW, Remington also made a sunshade for their scopes, find one of those too. Mike told me they made them because shooters wanted a sun shade. He went on to say to never put anything on the objective bell because it loads up the lens an causes problems ( accuracy problems ).

Jeff Aberegg
 
The sister has all the money but only because her husband collects Mossberg trinkets.

Yeah, I want a Remington sunshade too. I'd trade a genuine Arkinsaw coon-pecker necklace with a lucky buckeye attached.....no boot.....and not back out either !!

Volume discounts are available.

Sando
 
My Rem 24XBR

Sando said:
I am the dastardly cretin who bought that scope and the seller was the one who provided me with a copy of Jeff's article from '94. That article both confirmed and refuted information I had gathered over the years about the Remington BR scopes. Thought I would try to track Jeff down on this site to give him a little more info based on my experience.

As I previously stated, I own a few of them and this one was particularly appealing in that the serial number was just 13 away from the other 24x that I currently own.

My estimate of values is based on what I have paid for these items and what I have seen others pay for these items, with and without any accessories. I am by no means, however, an expert appraiser of these or any items....except maybe jumping mules or worn-out chainsaws !

I paid $700 plus shipping and feel good about it. I have paid more for less....:eek:

As I am now Remington BR "scope-poor", there will have to be a really compelling reason for me to buy any more for my collection.

Best regards,

Sando
Click to expand...

I found the article on the 20XBR it is a piece in 1969 Guns and Ammo October issue. The article highlights a new cut down version of the 40X and the 20XBR scope "remingtons entry into the optics field" .The piece states. "..the combined forces of Walkers (Mike) custom gun department came up with the highly eficient Rem 20XBR Target Scope"

I;ll try to scan the article.
 
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