Tuners?
- Thread starter 750k2
- Start date
H
Hawk
Guest
Tuners
I don't profess great experience with these, however I believe the 00 starting point is valid in so much as you only have one direction to worry about.
If you were to start at 250 for example, which way are you going to go,?
50/50 chance of being wrong
, start at 00, go out to 100, go out to 200,300,400, etc, firing five shot groups at each setting. One of these should give you an indication of being in the ball park . Fine tune from there, three shot groups at five increments below the indicated # for one complete revolution. Then three shot groups per five increments above the the indicated # for three complete revolutions. A visual check should show the preferred setting . You may have to fine tune this setting in the wind to confirm .
85rounds and you still have 15 to fine tune. Less than two packets of ammo, doesn't get much better than this.
Hope this helps.
Don. H.
I don't profess great experience with these, however I believe the 00 starting point is valid in so much as you only have one direction to worry about.
If you were to start at 250 for example, which way are you going to go,?
50/50 chance of being wrong
, start at 00, go out to 100, go out to 200,300,400, etc, firing five shot groups at each setting. One of these should give you an indication of being in the ball park . Fine tune from there, three shot groups at five increments below the indicated # for one complete revolution. Then three shot groups per five increments above the the indicated # for three complete revolutions. A visual check should show the preferred setting . You may have to fine tune this setting in the wind to confirm .85rounds and you still have 15 to fine tune. Less than two packets of ammo, doesn't get much better than this.
Hope this helps.
Don. H.
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A
Alabamabill
Guest
Being very new and about to get my first rifle I asked basically the same question about tuning. Below is the "Hopewell" method that many recommended. I haven't used it yet but will shortly - a week or so I should be finished.
ADJUSTING YOUR TUNER “The Hopewell Method”
1. Set your tuner to “0” and fire two shots.
Turn tuner one complete revolution (25 clicks) and fire two shots, continue this until you reach “100”. You now have a 10 shot group, all shot at the same POA.
2. Repeat step one from “100” to “200”
3. Repeat Step one from “200” to “300”
.
4. Repeat Step one from “300” to “400”
5. Repeat Step one from “400” to “500”. You now have five 10-shot groups.
One of the 10-shot groups will show the smallest vertical stringing. You should have used only 50 rounds so far.
Let's say that you find that the “200” to “300” group shows the least vertical stringing.
6. Starting at “200”, shoot 2 five shot groups. Shift to a different POA for each group.
7. Repeat at “225”, “250”, “275” and “300”
8. One of these settings will show a decrease in group size.
Example: “250” showed the smallest group.
9. Now, start at “245” and shoot a five shot group at 245, 247, 249, 251, 253 and 255.
You will locate the “sweet” spot of your rifle barrel.
10. If you have any doubts, start over at Step #6, and redo the testing.
ADJUSTING YOUR TUNER “The Hopewell Method”
1. Set your tuner to “0” and fire two shots.
Turn tuner one complete revolution (25 clicks) and fire two shots, continue this until you reach “100”. You now have a 10 shot group, all shot at the same POA.
2. Repeat step one from “100” to “200”
3. Repeat Step one from “200” to “300”
.
4. Repeat Step one from “300” to “400”
5. Repeat Step one from “400” to “500”. You now have five 10-shot groups.
One of the 10-shot groups will show the smallest vertical stringing. You should have used only 50 rounds so far.
Let's say that you find that the “200” to “300” group shows the least vertical stringing.
6. Starting at “200”, shoot 2 five shot groups. Shift to a different POA for each group.
7. Repeat at “225”, “250”, “275” and “300”
8. One of these settings will show a decrease in group size.
Example: “250” showed the smallest group.
9. Now, start at “245” and shoot a five shot group at 245, 247, 249, 251, 253 and 255.
You will locate the “sweet” spot of your rifle barrel.
10. If you have any doubts, start over at Step #6, and redo the testing.
C
cadillacjack
Guest
Mid barrel tuner
First, tune your gun with the Hoen Tuner, THEN put the mid tuner on and see if you can't tighten up your group. Works for me. MERRY cHRISTMAS Fred
First, tune your gun with the Hoen Tuner, THEN put the mid tuner on and see if you can't tighten up your group. Works for me. MERRY cHRISTMAS Fred
750k2
New member
A or B?
A=Mount tuner set at mid point add weight til I find smallest vert.
Then mount and tune with mid bbl , last start at 0 and dial tune.
B=Mount mid and tune mid bbl, Mount tuner set a mid point and add
weight to fine tune, Dial tune from 0 for final setting.
Anyone have an option C?
A=Mount tuner set at mid point add weight til I find smallest vert.
Then mount and tune with mid bbl , last start at 0 and dial tune.
B=Mount mid and tune mid bbl, Mount tuner set a mid point and add
weight to fine tune, Dial tune from 0 for final setting.
Anyone have an option C?
The Hopewell method assumes that the average of the five two shot groups will be reduced by smaller groups that occur around the sweet spot. It seems to be the opinion of most that there are multiple sweet spots throughout the tuners adjustment range. Some consider there is a "best" setting every half revolution of a threaded tuner. Whether you will be able to pick the smallest, or best, spot will depend on how much the tuner is reducing the group size, and how much variation you have in the groups. Generally variation in rimfire groups will far exceed the improvement made by the tuner.
To confirm that a sweet spot, and especially the best sweet spot has been found takes multiple groups fired at the spot and away from it. Depending on single groups of two or even five shots may give misleading results. There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule as to how many groups are needed - probably though, it must be enough to satisfy the shooter he has a true average. Five five shot groups are commonly taken as enough to give an accurate average but a it depends on shooter skill. I find I must fire seven, maybe as many as ten groups before I get an average accurate within 10%. You simply have to keep firing until you get a variation that is less than the improvement you think you get from the tuner.
Bottom line is that it is very difficult to find the very best tuner setting. It requires a large number of shots and throughout all these shots all other conditions and variations have to be accounted for. It's been my experience, many shooters simply find a setting that gives them a reasonable number of small groups and then use this setting for all their shooting.
To confirm that a sweet spot, and especially the best sweet spot has been found takes multiple groups fired at the spot and away from it. Depending on single groups of two or even five shots may give misleading results. There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule as to how many groups are needed - probably though, it must be enough to satisfy the shooter he has a true average. Five five shot groups are commonly taken as enough to give an accurate average but a it depends on shooter skill. I find I must fire seven, maybe as many as ten groups before I get an average accurate within 10%. You simply have to keep firing until you get a variation that is less than the improvement you think you get from the tuner.
Bottom line is that it is very difficult to find the very best tuner setting. It requires a large number of shots and throughout all these shots all other conditions and variations have to be accounted for. It's been my experience, many shooters simply find a setting that gives them a reasonable number of small groups and then use this setting for all their shooting.
M
M_Saint
Guest
Yes but a tuner can turn a good shooting gun into a great shooting gun.
C
cadillacjack
Guest
This thread is about tuners
Gordon whats your point? Here we are discussing tuners and how to set them.You think ignition is important then start a thread on ignition. But to say it would not be a great shoot'in gun but for the ignition tells us nothing.
e.g. I wouldn't be a great shooting gun but fore the (1)Great barrel,(2)great trigger,(3) great lapping,Great scope,(4) Great bedding etc.
In this thread what is being discussed is tunner adjustment AND it assumes the above. I'm not dissagreeing with your statement concerning ignition; it's just that this tread talks about apples and you want to talk about oranges.
Why not start a thread about oranges? My two cents. Fred Leeds
Gordon whats your point? Here we are discussing tuners and how to set them.You think ignition is important then start a thread on ignition. But to say it would not be a great shoot'in gun but for the ignition tells us nothing.
e.g. I wouldn't be a great shooting gun but fore the (1)Great barrel,(2)great trigger,(3) great lapping,Great scope,(4) Great bedding etc.
In this thread what is being discussed is tunner adjustment AND it assumes the above. I'm not dissagreeing with your statement concerning ignition; it's just that this tread talks about apples and you want to talk about oranges.
Why not start a thread about oranges? My two cents. Fred Leeds
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Jack
The only thing i am trying to do on a TUNING THREAD is to save people a lot of Ammo and Headaches.
From your post it is obivious you don't have a clue what Consistant ignition is.But i can tell you the guns with it are a lot better off than the ones without. If you think tuning isn't about everything being just right. Then i guess thats where you get your apples and oranges be careful you might end up with a lemon.
The only thing i am trying to do on a TUNING THREAD is to save people a lot of Ammo and Headaches.
From your post it is obivious you don't have a clue what Consistant ignition is.But i can tell you the guns with it are a lot better off than the ones without. If you think tuning isn't about everything being just right. Then i guess thats where you get your apples and oranges be careful you might end up with a lemon.
E
ErnieJ
Guest
Tuners
Jack and Gordon,please read the following.
I'm new to benchrest.Shot my first match in April with a factory Anschutz.
Finished mid pack but realized to be competitive I needed a custom gun. Ordered a Lilja barrel,Hall action,Jewel trigger,Loggins stock,Hoehn tuner,etc.
With the help of a competant gun smith the gun was ready in early September.Thats when diaster struck. The more I shot the worse it shot.I moved the tuner from "0" and no weight every .010 to .500 with 10 oz. on the tuner.I tried numerous lots of ammo,my ammo bill was near 2000.00. Its always windy in the Carolina mountains and for two months and seven matches I felt it was my inability to read the wind that was causing the problem. At the last match of the outdoor season it was dead calm.I was still
trying to tune the gun and drew a crowd of spectators.I shoot with a great bunch of guys.They are very competitive but also always willing to help or give advice. After watching me for a while one of them picked up one of my empty cases and in unison three guys said "you have an ignition problem". They recommended a source to correct the ignition and I sent the bolt off the next day. I'm back in Florida for the winter and shot my first match at Gateway with the modified bolt. The gun is shooting great and I won the 13.5
pound class.
I owe a big thanks to the three guys who recognized my problem(Jim Pepper,Cliff Keesee and Danny Helper).
Jack and Gordon,please read the following.
I'm new to benchrest.Shot my first match in April with a factory Anschutz.
Finished mid pack but realized to be competitive I needed a custom gun. Ordered a Lilja barrel,Hall action,Jewel trigger,Loggins stock,Hoehn tuner,etc.
With the help of a competant gun smith the gun was ready in early September.Thats when diaster struck. The more I shot the worse it shot.I moved the tuner from "0" and no weight every .010 to .500 with 10 oz. on the tuner.I tried numerous lots of ammo,my ammo bill was near 2000.00. Its always windy in the Carolina mountains and for two months and seven matches I felt it was my inability to read the wind that was causing the problem. At the last match of the outdoor season it was dead calm.I was still
trying to tune the gun and drew a crowd of spectators.I shoot with a great bunch of guys.They are very competitive but also always willing to help or give advice. After watching me for a while one of them picked up one of my empty cases and in unison three guys said "you have an ignition problem". They recommended a source to correct the ignition and I sent the bolt off the next day. I'm back in Florida for the winter and shot my first match at Gateway with the modified bolt. The gun is shooting great and I won the 13.5
pound class.
I owe a big thanks to the three guys who recognized my problem(Jim Pepper,Cliff Keesee and Danny Helper).
Fred, while you're trying to pull your foot/feet out of your mouth understand what the man is trying to tell you. Unless you go a long way to get consistant ignition, which many incorrectly assume to be good way too often, you will not live long enough to get the gun properly tuned. Just another example of why lots of guys with knowledge refuse to post it up here.
C
cadillacjack
Guest
Hey Gordon
I may not know what consistent ignition is, but I sure can tune a gun. I looked at your scores and compared them with mine and may I suggest you have someone who knows what they are talking about tune your gun. You seem to only semi-understand. Might check your bedding and have action semi-glued. You give plenty of advice, unfortunately, most of it is semi-worthless. Though my gun is yellow, "It ain't no lemon." I suggest if you have a lemon you make lemonade, or get it checked out by someone who knows what they are doing.
I may not know what consistent ignition is, but I sure can tune a gun. I looked at your scores and compared them with mine and may I suggest you have someone who knows what they are talking about tune your gun. You seem to only semi-understand. Might check your bedding and have action semi-glued. You give plenty of advice, unfortunately, most of it is semi-worthless. Though my gun is yellow, "It ain't no lemon." I suggest if you have a lemon you make lemonade, or get it checked out by someone who knows what they are doing.
E
ErnieJ
Guest
Tuners
Fred,
My ignition problem is fixed. My point was that most beginners do not realize that ignition,bedding,head space,slugging etc. are more critical than tuning.
Fred,
My ignition problem is fixed. My point was that most beginners do not realize that ignition,bedding,head space,slugging etc. are more critical than tuning.