TUNERS, DENSITY ALTITUDE, HUMIDITY, etc.,

Gene Beggs

Active member
With all the talk of barrel harmonics, stopped muzzles, density altitude, water in the bore, this, that and everything else, it's enough to drive you crazy; isn't it? When the subject of tuners comes up, many just say, "Oh, to heck with it; it's all too complicated." :rolleyes:

If that's what you have been thinking, don't despair; it's not that hard; listen up, please.

"BARREL HARMONICS." Sounds pretty impressive; doesn't it? But in my opinion the word harmonics does not accurately describe what happens to a rifle barrel when fired.

Webster defines the word harmonic as, "of or relating to musical harmony; pleasing to hear."

Rifle barrels are anything but pleasing to the ear, and they don't harmonize with anything. When fired, they whip up and down like an old cane fishing pole, mostly in the vertical plane and the muzzle comes to a complete stop at the top and bottom of the swing. It is at one or the other of these stops that our bullets should exit as small variations in muzzle velocity result in the least dispersion. That's it; that's all there is to "tuning." You can time the bullet's exit with the powder charge or you can vary the vibration frequency of the barrel by moving a weight fore and aft on the barrel, whichever you feel is most convenient. Me? I'll use a tuner. I have tried it both ways and with the tuners of today, adjustment is quick and easy. I never have to adjust the load, I can never be caught at the line with a dozen cartridges that are loaded too hot. It's as easy as focusing a scope.

DENSITY ALTITUDE

This has caused a lot of confusion. Yes, changes in air density is the culprit that causes our rifles to go out of tune if we do nothing to compensate. You can monitor barametric pressure, relative humidity, temperature, dew point, wet bulb temperature, compute density altitude, etc., etc.; but do you know what the single most important thing is? Temperature!! Yes, changes in temperature have more affect on atmospheric density than all others combined. You can keep your rifle perfectly in tune throughout the day with nothing but an accurate thermometer and the simple formula that follows. Please remember that we are talking about short range benchrest group shooting with the typical 22 and 6mm cartridges in use today.

If you tune with the powder charge, decrease velocity 30 fps for each five degree increase in temperature and vice versa. With most powders, N133 being the most common, three tenths grain equals 30 fps. With most Culver type measures, one full number equals .6 grains. For example, if your favorite load is 54 clicks, and your rifle is perfectly in tune for the first match of the day when temp is 60 degrees, you will decrease the load to 53.5 clicks when temp reaches 65 degrees, 53 clicks at 70 degrees and so on.

Me, I prefer to use a tuner. I never have to change the powder charge and I find it much easier to remove the bolt from my rifle, slide it back so I can reach the tuner easily and make a small adjustment with the two little three inch tommy bars I carry around. Takes about fifteen seconds and I'm ready to go. No hassle, no pulling bullets and redoing a dozen cartridges, no cussing and fussin'. :D "But how much do you move the tuner, and which way?" you ask. Simple,

If the rifle is perfectly in tune, make a note of the temperature. Turn the tuner "IN" an eighth of a turn for each five degree increase in temp and vice versa. The tuner is marked with a single reference line. This line is placed at 12, 1:30, 3:00 4:30 etc. If the rifle dialed in for the first match of the day at 6:00 o'clock and temp was 60 degrees, move the tuner to the 4:30 position when temp reaches 65, 3:00 o'clock at 70 and so on. Understand? It's the simplest thing in the world but some try to complicate it. :rolleyes:

Hope this helps. See you in Phoenix.

Gene Beggs
 
Gene,

You have a knack for taking a subject that confuses (especially me) and giving a common-sense explanation and giving simple instructions on how to deal with the problem that are easy to understand and simple to follow.

It's a gift.

Thanks,

Dick
 
Well...Well...Well...

Some good common sense advise at last! Gene's advise coupled with the practical answers Jackie always gives should lead us to better match results. We've got Varmint Al for the theory coupled with Gene and Jackie with common sense answers of how to apply it; together, this will really help us get better results.

Thanks to you three for leading us through the nonsense....;)

virg
 
I'd like to add this to the discussion. I'm still learning how to operate the tuner, but the current barrel I'm working with seems to group better with more reliability or predictability than before. I had tried just about everything with that cuss that I'd classify as a fair barrel. It almost seems just having the tuner on improves how it behaves.

Tony
 
Gene
If another peson had posted this post it would sound like WWII around here.
We would want proof and would be talking about transisional waves deformation waves and how the bullet is already being scored before the barrel moves.
Its nice to see we are now past some of that.
Lynn

Lynn, thanks for the kind words of encouragement. I do the best I can and enjoy sharing what I discover with others. I try to remain open minded and avoid saying anything that might discourage someone from participating in our discussions. This forum is the most wonderful thing that ever came along for the accuracy minded rifleman. We are so fortunate to live in this period of time; let's make the most of it. :)

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Question - - -

Gene, have you tried lighter tuners moving them more to achieve tune? I was wondering if a tuner half the weight you are using moved twice the distance you are moving yours would achieve the same result. P.
 
You have a knack for taking a subject that confuses (especially me) and giving a common-sense explanation and giving simple instructions on how to deal with the problem that are easy to understand and simple to follow.

It's a gift.

Thanks,

Dick


Thank YOU Dick. Glad to know others are listening carefully. Isn't this forum wonderful? I have become so addicted to it I would be lost without it. I look forward to seeing you again my friend.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
tuners

Yesterday at the Lone Star Shootout, a 400 yard clay shoot, the three tuner equipped rifles there placed 1st, 2nd, and 4th. It is worth noting that the first place was the first perfect score ever shot at this match. This match is shot at 400 yards so is not point blank and the rifles are 6.5-284's but tuners do work and it doesn't take much weight!
Joe
 
Beggs Tuner

Larry Scharnhorst was the big winner at the Buffalo Shoot in Midland this year. Some of you may be surprised to learn that he was using a Beggs tuner.

Sorry Larry, the cat's outta' the bag. Enjoy your advantage while you can because others are beginning to figure it out. :eek: :D Great shooting my friend! See you in Phoenix.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
...If another peson had posted this post it would sound like WWII around here.
We would want proof and would be talking about transisional waves deformation waves and how the bullet is already being scored before the barrel moves...

The difference is that Gene posts his data and the results, not just hot air. Compare what Gene writes against what that other guy posts. Gene answers questions that are asked of him... Do a search, you'll see the difference.
 
Gene,

I like this: "If the rifle is perfectly in tune, make a note of the temperature. Turn the tuner "IN" an eighth of a turn for each five degree increase in temp and vice versa. The tuner is marked with a single reference line. This line is placed at 12, 1:30, 3:00 4:30 etc. If the rifle dialed in for the first match of the day at 6:00 o'clock and temp was 60 degrees, move the tuner to the 4:30 position when temp reaches 65, 3:00 o'clock at 70 and so on. Understand? It's the simplest thing in the world but some try to complicate it.
"

But here is my question:

In the SW, as the day warms up, from 75 degrees at the start of our match, to 95 degrees by the end, not only has the temp gone up, but we get some nasty winds along with it.

I'm hesitant to move the tuner at this point because I'm not sure if I'm chasing conditions or actually tuning the rifle.

I have noticed over the past few days that as it warms, I start getting more veritcal in my groups, but then again the wind picks up alot and is quartering at me from the 10 to 11 o'clock position, and I know that this can cause some vertical in the groups.

Even so, when the flags hold long enough, and can print round groups at 50 yards that measure from 0.19" to 0.22" (I'm measuring these for a different project, but that's why I have that data).

So, I'm lost as to what to do. Should I move the tuner, even though the rifle can still print round groups with a 20 degree temp swing?

s.:confused:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
From Wikipedia

":harmony sanctions harmoniousness (sounds that 'please')"

Wikipedia might be far from being the authority but it backs up Gene's comment.

Lynn, quit picking nits. By and large Gene is providing good common sense information that people can use. Your guy is by and large providing vague and or irrelevant information that is useless as folks try to make things work. Your comments just cloud the issues. Wake up man.
Tuners do work. You know that. I know that. Gene knows it. And Bill knows it. We are beginning to understand how to use them. (See my post above).

Now, why don't you help rather than post meaningless stuff.

Joe
 
Gene,

I like this: "If the rifle is perfectly in tune, make a note of the temperature. Turn the tuner "IN" an eighth of a turn for each five degree increase in temp and vice versa. The tuner is marked with a single reference line. This line is placed at 12, 1:30, 3:00 4:30 etc. If the rifle dialed in for the first match of the day at 6:00 o'clock and temp was 60 degrees, move the tuner to the 4:30 position when temp reaches 65, 3:00 o'clock at 70 and so on. Understand? It's the simplest thing in the world but some try to complicate it.
"

But here is my question:

In the SW, as the day warms up, from 75 degrees at the start of our match, to 95 degrees by the end, not only has the temp gone up, but we get some nasty winds along with it.

I'm hesitant to move the tuner at this point because I'm not sure if I'm chasing conditions or actually tuning the rifle.

I have noticed over the past few days that as it warms, I start getting more veritcal in my groups, but then again the wind picks up alot and is quartering at me from the 10 to 11 o'clock position, and I know that this can cause some vertical in the groups.

Even so, when the flags hold long enough, and can print round groups at 50 yards that measure from 0.19" to 0.22" (I'm measuring these for a different project, but that's why I have that data).

So, I'm lost as to what to do. Should I move the tuner, even though the rifle can still print round groups with a 20 degree temp swing?

s.:confused:


Steve, you mention shooting round groups at 50 yards. What type of rifle are you shooting and what caliber is it? Wind has no affect on tuning; the rifle is either in tune or not. Yes, nasty winds make tuning difficult. I need a little more information. If you are shooting rimfire at 50 yards, I know very little about rimfire.

Later,

Gene Beggs
 
Gene,

It's a rimfire rifle, an unlimited gun on a 1 piece rest.

One thing that I don't have figured out is how the temp outside influences the position of the barrel when the bullet leaves? I was thinking, as you said, than once the rifle is in tune, it stays there. I can see that.

But then in you post you described moving the tuner as the temp changes - wouldn't that be changing the tune of the rifle?

s.
 
Tuners on 6.5-284's

Gene, We have built tuners loosely modeled on your tuners. They are installed on 1.125" straight 6.5-284 barrels threaded at 32 tpi. They do work and you can use them to tune groups at longer distances. We are shooting 400 yards. The interesting thing is the small amount of weight it takes to be effective on these barrels. We are using two rings that each weigh a bit under 1 ounce. One half turn can take you from a scattered group to a nice small group.
It seems that it you have 4 in and one out, or a group with more vertical than horizontal, you still need a bit of adjustment. Sound familiar?

Joe
 
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