trouble throwing charges

L

LASER

Guest
Last summer I went down the short range path for first time. Got all the right things, at least I think so. Problems arose with throwing H4198 with a Harrell. Talked to four million people, read all one can find until blue in the face. My conclusion is to take the Chargemaster to the range and be done with the other variables. Been using it for years, seems to be OK. Could possibly get a newer one as mine is first gen. Checked it against the trusty balance scale, OK. I have a good, reliable remote power source. Need ideas on how to tote thing around and set up at the range,solid, level, out of breeze. etc. Thank you!

LASER
 
A friend, Paul Garin http://www.surestrikesystem.com/ made one for himself and a second for Walt Berger. I believe that it contains a battery for power. Perhaps you can use his idea as a starting point, or simply copy it. Get back to us with your solution.
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I was thinking

along those lines myself. Here at home I have my Chargemaster isolated. Sits on a pedestal on a pipe mounted into the concrete with a floor flange. Way solid. Concerned, possibly overly so about the thumping of the sizer and seater (vibration) on the electronic scale. It is a piezoelectric kind a thing and I thought, again possibly too much about possible damage. An idea to isolate the scale on a wind flag kind of pedestal is festering in this senile brain. Please tell me that I am overthinking this thing. Been hearing this about everything I do/did for most of my life. The brain set of a product developer.... "What if" is the constant theme running around in my brain.
Thank you for your kind reply!

Tim Thompson
Hanover PA
 
What are you shooting ?
If a 30 br just load at home..most do.
 
Careful using battery, I do not think charge master has any internal reverse protection. So if you get polarity wrong it can damage. If I was going to use battery I would install diode inside to protect.
 
Does the rifle shoot better with weighed charges? Don't just say yes if you don't actually know....
 
There are more and more ChargeMasters being used at matches, but I think the jury is still out on whether aggs are getting better because of it.

The axiom used to be that if you were in the load window with a decent barrel, two tenths grn one way or the other just didn't matter.

I have, (as many other have done as well), taken my Rail Gun and shot groups with carefully weighed charges, and then shot groups with thrown charges of the same weight on average, and could not tell the difference.

Anecdotal at best, but sometimes I wonder if the hassle of weighing the charges at a range, outside, in the wind, is worth the effort.

I weigh all of my charges for my 30 BR when I pre-load, but that is in the comfort of my living room with a very nice scale under controled conditions.
 
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I use the battery

r44astro said:
Careful using battery, I do not think charge master has any internal reverse protection. So if you get polarity wrong it can damage. If I was going to use battery I would install diode inside to protect.
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all the time as a signal conditioner. I can just unplug battery and go. I checked the signal out of the transformer then out of the battery. Way less noisy. Gun room is all fluorescent. No 60 hertz out of bat.

As I said earlier, I just started shooting a light varmint. It is a 6 Beggs.
In a quest to find why the gun shoots good sometimes and not others I started checking my thrown charges.

The answer to your question Wilbur is I think so but bag manners, bullets etc are still all in question, I did however identify erratic charges being thrown. I want to try group shooting this summer and am just working out the bugs, recognizing of course that I have a long learning curve ahead.

Tim Thompson
Hanover PA
 
The question is which hassle to choose

jackie schmidt said:
There are more and more ChargeMasters being used at matches, but I think the jury is still out on whether aggs are getting better because of it.

The axiom used to be that if you were in the load window with a decent barrel, two tenths grn one way or the other just didn't matter.

I have, (as many other have done as well), taken my Rail Gun and shot groups with carefully weighed charges, and then shot groups with thrown charges of the same weight on average, and could not tell the difference.

Anecdotal at best, but sometimes I wonder if the hassle of weighing the charges at a range, outside, in the wind, is worth the effort.

I weigh all of my charges for my 30 BR when I pre-load, but that is in the comfort of my living room with a very nice scale under controlled conditions.
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Goin' nuts because you do not know if your charges are correct or the hassle of the Chargemaster at the range. There is also the hassle of learning to use the Culver type powder charge thrower. Sometimes this BR trip is fun, sometimes a KING SIZE HASSLE. Just trying to choose the devil I know and proceed.

Tim Thompson
 
LASER said:
Goin' nuts because you do not know if your charges are correct or the hassle of the Chargemaster at the range. There is also the hassle of learning to use the Culver type powder charge thrower. Sometimes this BR trip is fun, sometimes a KING SIZE HASSLE. Just trying to choose the devil I know and proceed.

Tim Thompson
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I have three different brands of powder throwers. One is a big Bruno that I have had 15 years. The other is a Lyman with a Hensler Insert. The third is a RCBS.

No one will throw charges any more accurate than the other, because they all three work exactly the same way.......gravity. The secret to consistancy is trying to do the exact same procedure every time.

But even then, if I sit down and throw 25 charges, weighing each with my Denver Lab Scale, I can expect 85 percent to be within .3 of each other. The others might vary more, either on the plus, or minus side.

The RCBS will throw just as accurate as the other two, it is just a pain to adjust to an exact charge.

Truth is, that is the only advantage of a Benchrest Style thrower. Ease in arriving at an exact average charge. Shooters who pay hundreds of dollars for a given measure thinking it will throw 133 within +-.1 grn are fooling themselves.

You would think that finer grain powders would do better. But the LT30 I have will not throw much better than 133.

If we could actually throw within .3 every time, all of this would be a moot point. But If you sit down and set your measure at 30.0 of 133, I guarantee out of 25 charges, you will have at least five that will be 29.7 or 30.3. Those are the ones that will get you.
 
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Because I don't know ill ask. Would a faster powder like 4198's load window be more sensitive to a couple tenth or so difference than 133?
I have tried the chargemaster at the range IMO without some type of enclosure such as the one Boyd posted is an awful experience.
 
MAYBE GENE B will jump in...

Tim Singleton said:
Because I don't know ill ask. Would a faster powder like 4198's load window be more sensitive to a couple tenth or so difference than 133?
I have tried the chargemaster at the range IMO without some type of enclosure such as the one Boyd posted is an awful experience.
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I read all the posts pertaining to how to throw

FBecigneul said:
Don't be vile; use the vial.

Sorry Stanley, CMaier made me do it.

To what decimal point does the Chargemaster weigh? I just throw with a Harrel. I practice throwing during the long, cold months of Michigan winter. I then check on a digital scale and find my thrown charges are within 0.1 grains.
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and thought I had it working. Threw a hole damn pound or so, weighing each charge with a balance scale. Was getting pretty consistent.Sometime later I Went to the range and was all over the place compared to previous trips. Did not think it was powder but went down the list and found wacky weights. They were not even close to each other(+/- .5 or worse) When I did initial load development I went to range with several different charges loaded with the chargemaster, bullets, and the seater. At some point things were going pretty well. Next time out with thrown charges ... From reading previous posts, I think from Boyd, I will have to practice more and check at each loading session if I try the thrown vs weighed. I have been doing this long enough to know that all my issues are possibly not only the powder charge..
One reason I went with the Beggs was simplicity. Was told get H4198 and go shootin'. Bought a Beggs reamer from Kiff. a bushing die from Beggs and a couple of Brux bbls. Had them chambered and screwed on a BAT. I am thinking of contacting Mr. Beggs and asking him if a trip to Texas and tunnel time is possible. Woulda' been nice to do it in October and catch the Grand Prix.
At this point, building whatever it takes to use the chargemaster at the range is the least hassle free option. Perhaps,maybe, I think so. Anyhow I will try it. Heading to the lumber yard soon to be ready when weather breaks.
Tim Thompson
Hanover PA
 
LASER said:
would a body have to take to a two day group shoot?

LASER
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You would need about 150 Vials, if you do not plan on changing the load.

The thing about Vials is you don't need so many pieces of brass made up. But,you can be assured that all of the charges are exact.

But, just like pre-loading, if the load doesn't seem right, you are back to square one.

I shot Pre-loaded rounds for the Crawfish, at times I shot very well, at others, I stunk it up.
 
Powder throwing idea

There is no shortage of ideas in this sport. This is my set up,when I use a charge master measure. Which is not very often.

The aluminum box was custom made,for a Benchrest shooter(retired), by Ziegler. Don't know if Ziegler is still in business. I use a culver measure,bottle removed, as a drop method. If the charge master gets a little wacky, during a match, I just fill the culver measure bottle with powder and keep on trucking. This is a portable set up ,as shown. easily transportable to and from the range.

A cheaper version of this box,could probably be made from wood. The Goal Zero power converter fits in the box behind the Charge Master. One full charge lasts all weekend long.
The Goal zero can also be used to charge a laptop, cell phone, or digital scale,if the need arises.








Glenn
 
Thats a really nice box. Was a shame they didn't make the "latches" simpler or easier to operate. Looks like you changed them for the better. I've got two of them and have tried several ways to keep them closed but it ain't easy. I riveted a simple latch on the top and the catch on the door. That gets it there but it's not closed tightly...tightly enough to keep the stuff inside and I suppose that's all that matters.
 
anyone that thinks they are throwing at 0.1m by checking
with a beam scale or a cheap digital scale,
are just re-enforcing poor behavior.
go read what jackie said.
no way are you throwing .1
jackie said it...not one person challenged him.
watch how many whine at my post.
 
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