The Rise of the Varmint Hunter Class
- Thread starter Pete Wass
- Start date
Pete, VH = 30BR or PPC your option. More choices, less boom and recoil in a ten lb gun, just more choices I guess than hunter class. The 30 BR is arguably easier to tune and shoot well in the six power platform.
Then again there is the mid west where NBRSA hunter class dominates, because there is no VH class in that organization, and one of the top shooters uses 150 gr bullets. Go figure huh?
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Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
What would truly make sense would be dropping the case capacity rule and have just one 6X class.......-Al
It is not too late this year for an agenda item !
What would truly make sense would be dropping the case capacity rule and have just one 6X class.......
Al, you are in tune with many NBRSA hunter shooters. Has there been any talk about doing a case capacity drop there? How pure is the thought process regarding case capacity among hunter gun shooters out your way, which is many more than here on the east coast?
Dick Grosbier
Club Coordinator
Pete
You seem to think if case capacity were dropped everybody would stop shooting the larger cases. Since NBRSA would never change I think your conclusion is flawed. I think most people would simply stick by their favorite cartridge. Varmint Hunter class was dreamed up in the first place to try and come to an understanding with NBRSA so the probability of them dropping the case capacity requirement if IBS did is about 3 trillion to 1. I think Die hard "Hunter" class shooters will never go to the smaller cases.
Dick
I'm just wondering how deep seeded the hunter gun spirit is. In the IBS it seems passé as there seem to be fewer and fewer hunter shooters and more VH shooters. I'm wondering if IBS did eliminate case capacity and held a national in the Midwest would all those NBRSA hunter shooters avoid it on principle?
jackie schmidt
New member
The way things have evloved, the three defining factors in HBR are the case capacity and the 6x scope, and the 2 1/4 forearm width.
The shooters I talk to say that they would give HBR a try if it were not for the 6x scope. That would be more in line with what a "hunters" rifle is in the 21st Century.
I can see the benefits of dropping the capacity as far as convienience is concerned. A shooter could have a legal Varmint Hunter and a legal Varmint for score Rifle and use the same chambering.
All of this is a moot point as far as the NBRSA is concerned. For those that remember, many of the originol restrictions have been dropped through the years from HBR, the three remaining are written in stone. ........jackie
The shooters I talk to say that they would give HBR a try if it were not for the 6x scope. That would be more in line with what a "hunters" rifle is in the 21st Century.
I can see the benefits of dropping the capacity as far as convienience is concerned. A shooter could have a legal Varmint Hunter and a legal Varmint for score Rifle and use the same chambering.
All of this is a moot point as far as the NBRSA is concerned. For those that remember, many of the originol restrictions have been dropped through the years from HBR, the three remaining are written in stone. ........jackie
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I don't think the scope magnification is the issue. If one was to go to a 9X scope, which is the most typical for Hunting Rifles, one wouldn't gain much in the scheme of things. I have shot a lot of Hunter Benchrest and some VFS over the years and I, like most other elderly (soon to be 68) individuals, have cataracs coming, I have been told. I have, only on very few occasions, been able to see what I was shooting at, exactly. It's a Blind Faith Thing with the rifle one must accept. I once asked a young HBR shooter if he could see the score rings through his scope. He was about 15 and didn't need glasses. He said NOOOO, very indignantly, as if I had asked a stupid question. It ain't about being able to see anything, it's about the SCORES. It's relatively easy to get a good score with a VFS rifle, vs an HBR rifle and I believe that is what keeps many folks away. There is something about not shooting a 250 often that keeps folks who "can't see" away, I believe. It's a more difficult learning curve, as many know.
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Greg, we're lucky out here in that we shoot both IBS and NBRSA ranges, so most everyones HBR rig is chambered for an NBRSA legal capacity cartridge. There's the occasional VH gun at either Webster City or Holmen, Wi. but never more than a couple. That said, we've had 6PPC and 30BR chambered VH guns win the Two Gun...Brad Lewis and Terry Meyer totin' 6PPC's and myself (30BR). I ran a 30BR barrel on my gun for a season just to get a better idea of how a 30BR chambered 6 Power gun acts. It's more pleasant to shoot than the various 30X47's-30X48's due to the lower muzzle pressure (H4198 vs. N135, SRB118, Benchmark, H322, etc.), but I didn't shoot any better scores with it than my NBRSA legal 'big' case barrels.
Among NBRSA and IBS shooters out here.....'cuz we're one and the same bunch
.....there seems to be two schools of thought. Some like the idea of dropping the case capacity in both organizations. Since the weight, stock and scope are the essence of HBR shooting, the salient features and the attraction remain the same. For those shooting a VfS gun in 30BR, building a HBR gun with the same reamer, dies, etc. makes a lot of economic sense and simplifies shooting both guns if a Two Gun is being contested. Others feel that the gun handling issues that come with the 'big' cases are part of shooting these types of guns...so the case capacity to them is part of the equation. I see both sides.
Being a pragmatist, I favor dropping the case capacity and caliber requirement to encourage more competitors to build these guns and allow more options for those currently competing in IBS and NBRSA HBR classes. More options/opportunities is always better for the shooters.
Believe me, even if the NBRSA was to drop the case capacity rule, the guys shooting well worked out 30X47-48's with 150's from a 14-15 twist barrel aren't going to abandon their combos and have a fire sale on components. These rigs can and do win any time and any place. Tom Hencken just kicked the dog snot out of 48 of us at Van Dyne, Wi. shooting just such a rig, shooting a pending 200 yd. record to boot in doing so (250-14X).
The runner up to Tom in the Grand shot what could be termed a 'new wave' HBR rig....short, light bullets (1.00 long 117's) in a 'special slow' twist barrel with a case that barely makes capacity requirement (so as to use H4198 for less muzzle pressure and better handling). I doubt Tom felt disadvantaged!
Good shootin'. -Al
Hope Carleton
New member
I’m enjoying watching this thread. Although I do not shoot 6X presently, I hope that my limited competing in HBR several years ago gives me license to opine. Lot’sa good comments/ideas by the contributors to this thread.
“I favor dropping the case capacity and caliber requirement to encourage more competitors to build these guns and allow more options for those currently competing in IBS and NBRSA HBR classes. More options/opportunities is always better for the shooters”. Al, I feel this idea is “spot on” and any change in the rules that give shooters more opportunity within the sprit of the competition and allow less excuses to not shoot would be a good thing for the sport and the score shooting community…..Score shooting has become/ is popular with the local clubs ,for the most part VFS shooters …. Might be fun if 6X shooting was more prevalent.
-H
“I favor dropping the case capacity and caliber requirement to encourage more competitors to build these guns and allow more options for those currently competing in IBS and NBRSA HBR classes. More options/opportunities is always better for the shooters”. Al, I feel this idea is “spot on” and any change in the rules that give shooters more opportunity within the sprit of the competition and allow less excuses to not shoot would be a good thing for the sport and the score shooting community…..Score shooting has become/ is popular with the local clubs ,for the most part VFS shooters …. Might be fun if 6X shooting was more prevalent.
-H
Apollo
Jason Stanley
I also agree that the case capacity should be dropped. It just makes sense. "For those shooting a VfS gun in 30BR, building a HBR gun with the same reamer, dies, etc. makes a lot of economic sense and simplifies shooting both guns if a Two Gun is being contested. I favor dropping the case capacity and caliber requirement to encourage more competitors to build these guns and allow more options for those currently competing in IBS and NBRSA HBR classes. More options/opportunities is always better for the shooters."
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Jason, I would agree with that ESP if located in an area where both organizations hold matches.
Here in NE Pa, once the cornerstone of IBS Hunter Class BR, the participation in Htr/ VH has declined to the point where typically there is only one or 2 individuals participating in either class, while VFS draws 25 -30 shooters. Not coincidentally, the number of Hunter Class shooters declined soon after custom actions were allowed. Granted long time competitors, like Frank McKee, Vince Pastorella, Gary Long and Eddie Harren consistently won with factory (albeit accurized) actions , new-comers saw the new guys on the block using customs doing quite well against the seasoned veterans. Either first time shooters competing with their own versions of tricked- out hunting guns were intimidated and stopped coming, or if they decided to invest in a custom- actioned gun, why build it for a class that will not garner shooter points due lack of competitors in that class?
I do have both VFS and VH rifles, but almost always elect to shoot VFS because that's where the competition is, although Htr class is definitely more challenging.
Although some tournaments now have a two-gun award, I don't see Htr/ VH ever making a comeback here. If I thought that combining the two classes would help preserve and further promote HBR across the board ...I would be in favor of such. Just not sure if there are unintended consequences that might arise.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the rule change to allow customs is what it is. Just saying in my region, it seems to have had a negative effect on the class.
I do have both VFS and VH rifles, but almost always elect to shoot VFS because that's where the competition is, although Htr class is definitely more challenging.
Although some tournaments now have a two-gun award, I don't see Htr/ VH ever making a comeback here. If I thought that combining the two classes would help preserve and further promote HBR across the board ...I would be in favor of such. Just not sure if there are unintended consequences that might arise.
Right, wrong, or indifferent, the rule change to allow customs is what it is. Just saying in my region, it seems to have had a negative effect on the class.
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Randy Perkowski
New member
Many valid points have been brought up to the decline of the hunter benchrest game. I started shooting hunter class in 2000. It was the end of the 700 Reminton, the 168 grain Sierra Matchkings, and the hunting scope. It has been mentioned that allowing the custom action into the class was the downfall. I believe that this is only a perception. Not only did the serious competitor use a custom action but also a tricked out 6X scope, Lapua brass, and a fine selection of the finest 30 caliber match bullets available. The original competitors of the game did not stand a chance with the new combinations, along with this a large amount of bench time was spent to hone the skills need to shoot a 250-15+X target. This perception of a Remington or other factory class action was based upon the package that was the norm for the first 15-20 years of hunter benchrest. I like many others started with a 700 Remington, a basic 6X scope, but did have a custom match barrel and bullets. The Remingtons after a bit of work will compete with any of the customs. Their main drawback is poor bench manners. Given the same components & optics they do compete.
As far as the case restrictions are concerned, I would like to see them all lifted. This would allow those that insist that the hunter class cases kick too much could get involved. A single 6X class within the IBS would increase competition and attract new shooters. In the NBRSA more competitors also would be gained. Over the years of competition, I have changed what works for me. Up till two years ago I shot a 30 X 47.5 with 135 grain bullets at around 3000 FPS. This still my load of choice for 200 & 300 yards. I have backed things down for 100 yards, using a 30 X 44 with 115 grain bullets. They are much friendlier on one's shoulder and concentration. Focus on the shot about to be fired is the most important factor in the game.
Discussions have come up concerning the 6X scope limitations. This is the single most defining rule of the class. A good hunter class rifle in the right hands will shoot a well as most group guns. I will admit that the consistancy will not be as good, but the equipment is equal. When tuning my hunter guns, I shoot a regulation hunter target simiulating a match. Each following match is then shot over the existing holes in the target. I then measure the group on each individual target. These usually range from .120"-.500" It won't do well in a group match but remember we are trying to hit the X. Any increase in power is someone outside the discipline trying to make a justification why they should not shoot the game.
As far as the case restrictions are concerned, I would like to see them all lifted. This would allow those that insist that the hunter class cases kick too much could get involved. A single 6X class within the IBS would increase competition and attract new shooters. In the NBRSA more competitors also would be gained. Over the years of competition, I have changed what works for me. Up till two years ago I shot a 30 X 47.5 with 135 grain bullets at around 3000 FPS. This still my load of choice for 200 & 300 yards. I have backed things down for 100 yards, using a 30 X 44 with 115 grain bullets. They are much friendlier on one's shoulder and concentration. Focus on the shot about to be fired is the most important factor in the game.
Discussions have come up concerning the 6X scope limitations. This is the single most defining rule of the class. A good hunter class rifle in the right hands will shoot a well as most group guns. I will admit that the consistancy will not be as good, but the equipment is equal. When tuning my hunter guns, I shoot a regulation hunter target simiulating a match. Each following match is then shot over the existing holes in the target. I then measure the group on each individual target. These usually range from .120"-.500" It won't do well in a group match but remember we are trying to hit the X. Any increase in power is someone outside the discipline trying to make a justification why they should not shoot the game.