The "click" when extracting a case?

Hunter said:
It's not unusual (in fact, it's common) for me to measure the same thing more than once and get more than one reading on my digital calipers -- by as much as .002. Is that likely because I don't know how to measure or because of cheap calipers? Is it common for you guys to get the same measurement every time?
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Bill, are you talking about digital linear calipers or digital micrometer calipers? Digital is nice, especially when the battery is good but the digital reading, 4 digits worth to the right of the decimal is deceiving because you can "see" for real!! However, the accuracy of that instrument is only as accurate as 1) its feedback system, and 2) the calibration method and standard you used to calibrate it with and 3) the feel you have developed by using a precision measuring instrument "buncjes" of times.

Getting a 0.002" difference from measurement to measurement of the same object sounds like you might not be there just yet. Hang on though, you will get better.
 
JerrySharrett said:
[A]re you talking about digital linear calipers or digital micrometer calipers? ... [T]he accuracy of that instrument is only as accurate as 1) its feedback system, and 2) the calibration method and standard you used to calibrate it with and 3) the feel you have developed by using a precision measuring instrument "buncjes" of times.

Getting a 0.002" difference from measurement to measurement of the same object sounds like you might not be there just yet. Hang on though, you will get better.
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Jerry, I'm talking about something that looks like this: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/41...aliper-6-stainless-steel?cm_vc=ProductFinding . I don't have a "standard," but even if I did would that eliminate the measurement differences? BTW, my shooting buddy experiences the same problem.
 
Hunter said:
Jerry, I'm talking about something that looks like this: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/41...aliper-6-stainless-steel?cm_vc=ProductFinding . I don't have a "standard," but even if I did would that eliminate the measurement differences? BTW, my shooting buddy experiences the same problem.
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What you have is a linear digital calipers. Since it has "anvils" that can touch or go to zero it doesn't require a standard to calibrate it. Same for a 0-1 micrometer calipers, simply move the anvils close together and take a piece of clean paper, put it between the anvils, then lightly close the anvils and remove the paper. This assures the mating surfaces have no foreign matter on their measuring surfaces.

At this point, close the anvils to where they touch. The instrument should now read zero. If it doesn't, simply press the zero button.

Another useful purpose for this particular tool is to close the anvils on a bullet shank, then set zero at that point. You can then use that "zero" setting to directly measure groups of that caliber!!

.

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full length die

I would like to add, I build a full length die. The shoulder and base are ground to your specs. I also include a neck/shoulder bump bushing. Price starts at $138 plus shipping.
 
yes_ it is...

alinwa said:
Is this die hardened?
al
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. The die is hardened and ground. Made out of tool steel. The bushing is made from the same material.?

My bushings are honened to size. Tolerances are held to .0005" or better.

You can send a case or print and or also a reamer. These items I can measure off of..

My main die line are typically geared toward the Wildcat guys. Those dies are more expensive..

Sincerely, Mark
Spencer tool as and Grind
(989)385--0173
 
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I can tell you one thing, anything mark spencer touches is golden. He does very fine work. He made some dies for me that we wont talk about but i assure you he was the only one that coulda pulled it off and did it with pure perfection. Dont hesitate to trust him to make whatever you need perfectly.
 
feffer said:
I've heard/read that [clicking] is caused by cases that have been fired too hot and/or too often and have now expanded to fill the chamber and don't spring back on future firing.
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Hal D. said:
But, you had better make sure you send [Lynwood] "clicky" brass if you want to cut right to the chase. I've seen a bunch of #1's, 1.5's, and #2's that get sent out because shooters send 3 of 4 times fired cases. Inevitably, the die goes back for a 2.5 or a 3...
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I'm confused, can someone explain?

It's my understanding that smaller-numbered Harrell's dies have a larger ID than do their larger-numbered dies (e.g., a "0" has a larger ID than does a "2.5"). It's also my understanding that Lynwood selects a die based on how far your case goes into his die, and a case with a larger OD gets a smaller numbered die (e.g., a "0" rather than a "2.5"). So, if you send him "clicky" brass (and if such brass did not spring back) it seems that he would initially select a smaller-numbered die that will not adequately resize the brass.

What am I missing?
 
Hunter said:
I'm confused, can someone explain?

It's my understanding that smaller-numbered Harrell's dies have a larger ID than do their larger-numbered dies (e.g., a "0" has a larger ID than does a "2.5"). It's also my understanding that Lynwood selects a die based on how far your case goes into his die, and a case with a larger OD gets a smaller numbered die (e.g., a "0" rather than a "2.5"). So, if you send him "clicky" brass (and if such brass did not spring back) it seems that he would initially select a smaller-numbered die that will not adequately resize the brass.

What am I missing?
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The Harrell die number is a "guesstimate" of the number of thousants of an inch the die would squeeze a JGS 1045 fired case. Actually Lynnwood didn't have an actual 1045 drawing till I sent him one a few years ago. He (they) try to send you a die that will size the minimum amount that will do the job. Sizing too much shortens life of your brass and some shooters feel has a negative effect on accuracy..

Anyhoo Lynnwood doesn't expect you to pay for it till you get what you want and are satisfied with, even on measures, presses, anything they sell.
 
Neck sizing "small shoulder" cartridges

One interesting detail about neck sizing - when using cartridges with small shoulders, meaning the ratio of the body to neck size is close (e.g. 222 and 223 Rem), one can often get away with neck sizing only and the brass won’t stick in the chamber. This is why one might be able to get away with neck sizing a 308 Win. for a few firings before the brass gets tight, since the body and shoulder diameter are relatively close in size. The opposite of this are small caliber BR and WSM cartridges. They often get tight in the chamber in as little as one firing.

Old timers like Dave Tooley and Jerry Sharrett ;) probably remember back in the day when the sharp-shouldered 222 wildcats were used in benchrest...almost everybody used a standard Wilson neck sizing die. When the brass finally got tight after multiple reloadings, it was time to throw it away anyway because the primer pockets opened up.

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.
 
JerrySharrett said:
The Harrell die number is a "guesstimate" of the number of thousants of an inch the die would squeeze a JGS 1045 fired case.
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So, how does sending "clicky" brass (which I assume is a tad "oversize") help Lynwood better select a die (as implied by Hal. D) than if you had sent one that is not "clicky."
 
Greg,

I'm not that old just well seasoned so to speak. I started out with the PPC but I do remember and have many versions of pre PPC cartridges. That came about from hanging with guys Jerry's age.

Dave
 
Dave Tooley said:
Greg,

I'm not that old just well seasoned so to speak. I started out with the PPC but I do remember and have many versions of pre PPC cartridges. That came about from hanging with guys Jerry's age.

Dave
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Dave, Do I resemble that remark?

Bill, Lynwood takes your clicky cartridge and factors in some secret numbers and comes up with a correct die fit. Actually, where some guys claim to have dies that do not size enough, what actually happens is the die sent to them works at the time for that age brass, then they keep shooting it till it hardens more and needs a smaller die than the one they were using when their brass was new.

Remember guys, that brass only lasts for about 150 firings :) !!
 
JerrySharrett said:
Lynwood takes your clicky cartridge and factors in some secret numbers and comes up with a correct die fit. Actually, where some guys claim to have dies that do not size enough, what actually happens is the die sent to them works at the time for that age brass, then they keep shooting it till it hardens more and needs a smaller die than the one they were using when their brass was new.
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Jerry, thanks for your patience in trying to explain this; hope to see you at the SS, maybe I can get further clarity on this subject.
 
Hunter said:
Jerry, thanks for your patience in trying to explain this; hope to see you at the SS, maybe I can get further clarity on this subject.
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Bill, usually Lynwood and a brother or cousin will be camped in their 5th wheel just below the second curve. After you turn in they will be the first camper on the left. Get with me and I will take you there for introductions if you want.
 
JerrySharrett said:
Bill, usually Lynwood and a brother or cousin will be camped in their 5th wheel just below the second curve. After you turn in they will be the first camper on the left. Get with me and I will take you there for introductions if you want.
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I talked to Lynwood last week and he said he didn't think he'd be there this year. I remember seeing them there last year but didn't stop in to say "Hi."
 
feffer said:
Many times fired RWS and Win brass: .4666
New unfired Lapua brass mics: .4692
I have a chamber cast but it may be unreliable because it does not show the "end" of the chamber (so it could mik a bit larger. But it shows .4703
I do not have any once fired brass.
The rifle has a "trued" Rem 700 action and the extractor cam does show some wear.

I was considering this Redding small base die. According to the discription:
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Actually, your experience is quite common for folks using Lapua brass in a tight chamber. Most of my reamers for .308 class cartridges spec. .471 at .200 in front of the bolt face datum. My reaming and polishing technique results in the back of the chamber coming in at about .472. This combination works perfectly as long as I size every time.

If your chamber is as close to the new brass size as your measurements suggest it may be difficult to size the base of the cases enough. If the small base die solves your problem all is good. If it does not, you could benefit from having the chamber polished up just a little larger.
 
Will the "Real Cartridge" please stand up.

One thing I've been able to glean from this discussion so far is that a chamber reamer print does not necessarily represent the cartridge dimensions. Which makes everything a little more murky. I believe Dave Tooley said in another thread that a resize reamer would best represent the cartridge dimensions. :confused:
 
adamsgt said:
One thing I've been able to glean from this discussion so far is that a chamber reamer print does not necessarily represent the cartridge dimensions. Which makes everything a little more murky. I believe Dave Tooley said in another thread that a resize reamer would best represent the cartridge dimensions. :confused:
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Sort of what I said. What I said was the resize reamer should match the dimensions of the brass. Many try but you can't resize the brass smaller than it was to start with and expect it to work. Except for the neck and shoulder it has already developed a memory from the manufacturing process. Compared to the resize reamer have the finish reamer made +.003" on the case head and +.004" on the shoulder. That has worked for me for 20 years now.

Dave
 
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