Thank's CHarles E

What I meant by" I"ve heard the good and bad" I meant I have heard so many opinions on all the builders, it's really hard to choose.
 
Sure, it is hard to choose. Both are fine gunsmiths. We have all been beaten by rifles they have made, and since most of us get an occasional win, we've also beaten rifles they have made. For what it's worth, they have both been in business a long time, pretty good evidence they have happy customers.

All the benchrest gunsmiths I know of are small shops. One guy, or one family. They don't have advertising budgets. Reputation is very important. Those that have been in business long enough probably have at least one disgruntled customer. Maybe for a legitimate reason, probably not. How can we know on an internet forum? We can't, which is why Wilbur made the rule.

Other things can determine choice. Good gunsmiths get busy. You can ask each of these guys how long it will take. Price also varies, for a number of reasons. You can ask each what it will cost.

Nobody can guarantee you'll get a world-beating rifle, just like nobody can guarantee you'll be happy. Soon as they do, you'll loose your job, your wife will leave you, and you'll get hit by a truck. It's known as the general cussedness of things. But aside from those outta nowhere kind of problems, either will build you a fine rifle.

Build the rifle. Come shoot with us.
 
..

I understand... Sorry for that post, I diddn't mean to make anyone look bad. I just worded it pretty porely. Lesson Learned
 
'Clicking' on a personal level with your gun builder can be a big part of the equation. Not that you have to be best buddies, but you do want someone that you communicate well with. Good back and forth feedback after the gun is up and running is an important piece of the puzzle.

I have that with the guy that does all my chambering and barrel work. Other than subjecting me to his twangy old-timey country music (how's that for sick and twisted?? :eek:) we get along well. He once grabbed a bunch of my CD's (AC/DC, Metallica, Dire Straits, etc.), held them outside the vehicle window and threatened to litter them along the length of I90...unless I put one of his George Jones CD's in. :eek:

The engine builder that did my Drag Race motors and I worked together like this. I'd call him on Monday or Tuesday and let him know how things went and how the motor responded to jetting changes, camshaft changes, different intakes, headers, blah, blah, blah. That helped him when he worked with other customers and his thoughts gave me some different things to consider. In the end, we both benefitted.

He never heard from some of his customers until the freight truck showed up at his place with a crated up race motor...usually with a well ventilated block and several rods hanging out. :D

He liked country music also. I'm sensing a disturbing pattern of behavior.

Having to decide between two of the best in the biz ain't a bad predicament to be in.............
 
I know all about that twangy "music". I Live in The center of Virginia, and it seem's like a blue grass mecca. When I moved here from Arizona, meaning that twang is non existant out west, I was in complete shock and thought the whole band was out of tune. No offence to you bluegrassers out there.
 
Butch Lambert said:
Al, He has to be a good guy!
Butch
Click to expand...

Butch: thinking I'd appeal to his sense of fair play and courtesy, I bought him the Johnny Cash three CD box set 'Love, God and Murder' for his birthday. When he opened it, he looked like Ralphy in 'A Christmas Story' with his BB gun on Christmas morning...eyes all agleam, smiling from ear to ear.

After a minute or two, he looked up at me and said: "Nyhus, if you think this means I'm gonna' listen to any of that crap you listen to...you're wrong!"

The boy's not right. :D
 
All Of Us Music Lovers

I have been playing guitar since I was in High School, not much of a leadman, but I can fill in the bgackground with great right hand work.

I love Johnny Cash. His lyrics are some of the greatest poetry you will ever read concerning the "human condition", and that simple, "boom chiga" rythm shows that a great sound is more than running up and down the neck with endless riffs.

I also love early Elvis, Ricky Nelson, Blue Grass, Early American Folk, Heavy Metal, The Stones, Led Zepplan, Motown, anything from the 50's and 60's, the Beatles and one song by Janis Joplin, (Big Brother and the Holding Company), "Take Another Little Piece of My Heart". Trisha Yearwood did a version of that a few years back. Pityfull. She just didn't understan that to sing that song right, you have to be stoned, drunk, and down right ugly.

Todays Country Music just sucks.

As for the Gunsmith question, and when it is appropriate to bring up negatives??. This is a tough call. I can think of two Gunsmiths in the past years who ended up screwing a lot of shooters royaly. If the word could have been put out about about the less than honorable practices of these individules, perhaps many could have been saved the heartache, and aggravation, of seeing hard earned money and dreams go down the toilet.

But, the fact is, we never know when someone simply has an ax to grind. If a shooter has a Rifle built, and he doesn't win his first match, he might be inclined to come aboard and say the Gunsmith was at fault.

Having a first class Rifle built by a first class Gunsmith certainly is no guarantee of success. It si simply one of the major components in solving the Accuracy Equation.

If you do this long enough, you will come to learn that the vast majority of people who are involved in Benchrest are upstanding honorable beings. This is a very close knit community. The word gets out pretty fast when somebody enters into questionable practices. The best we can hope for is not too many shooters aredamaged in the proccess.

Perhaps, in the future, Wilbur could set up a procedure for identifying charlitans, and using the Forum to educate Shooters. But untill then, we have to do the best we can.........jackie
 
Kasey said:
I Live in The center of Virginia, and it seem's like a blue grass mecca. When I moved here from Arizona, meaning that twang is non existant out west
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Lord, boy, who do you think settled the west? The carpetbaggers came south, and the southerners went west. It wasn't until the second half of the 20th century the yankees moved west. I'll allow that Texas was settled earlier, but that isn't the West.

I'll also allow the twang is (was?) flatter. Lost mine long ago -- had to move back east, too many resettled uh, easterners, cluttering up the place. Still miss the Mojave desert though.

BTW, there are several pretty good benchrest gunsmiths in Virgina, too. The best advice we can give to a new shooter is go to a few matches.

While it is still winter, there are several club-type score matches in February. There is one at Rockingham. N.C. next Saturday. A club match, but there will be some first-rate benchrest shooters there, getting in some time before the 2009 season. There will be Virginia shooters coming to that. Come on down.

Far as that goes, I think Fairfax Virginia will have a shoot pretty soon, too.

Edit:

Forgot to mention that Rockingham has a Factory Class and a Modified class. Bring what you have, we'll find a class for you to shoot in.
 
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This song should make everyone happy .

"Time Marches On "

Dr. John
B.B King
Wille Nelson

Dr John N'Awlinz: Dis Dat or d'Udda 2004


Glenn :D
 
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