Starting in Benchrest

rsmithsr said:
i saw several hiccups in things you have said.
you said benchrest and then said small groups
then you said cutting a line...not an issue in GROUP shooting.
so group shooting or score shooting ?
have you ever shot 5 five shot targets on the same day and still averaged under .2 ?

describe your rifle and loads
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I’m not sure if I will shoot group or score. I’m trying to find out what’s fairly close to me that I can shoot at.
I have not shot 5, five shot groups on the same day. I will typically shoot 3, targets that have 5 targets to shoot at one each one. So typically, 15 groups a day. They do almost always stay at .2 or lower. I may on a rare occasion get a .23 or so, but it is rare.

As I said the rifle is a 223, with a Pierce action, Kreiger barrel with a 12 twist and a Trigger Tech trigger. It is on not the best stock, a Bell and Carlson. Would like to get another stock for it, but just have not done so yet. Since the rifle seems to be firing good, I have put most of my money into reloading tools. The chamber of the barrel was reamed and the gun was built by Pierce Engineering of Michigan.

I shoot with Lapua brass, a 52 grain Nosler Custom Competition bullet. They are a hpbt with a very small metplat. It is loaded with 25.5 grains of Benchrest powder, which is checked and verified on two separate scales. I am however waiting right now on some Barts custom bullets. 52 grain hp/flat base. They are supposed to be very good I hear and I am told the flat base is better at 100 yards than the boat tail design. I’ll see.

As far as loading procedure here it is. All the bullets are weight sorted, the cases are also. The cases are trimmed then neck turned following their first firing. I use a Redding type S die with bushings to full length size the cases. I full length size after every firing. I do not neck size only. The neck tension is set at .002”. The separated bullets are then seated using a Redding competition seating die. All rounds are of course checked for Concentricity after seating. I am a bit, well according to my wife, a lot OCD regarding these things. However the rounds are right when I finish with them. It takes me much longer than most people because I double and triple check each round at every step as I make it. My dad and granddad taught me “measure twice, cut once.” So I always do.

Anyway, that’s what I have and what i shoot and how I make it, pretty much. Hope that answers your questions.
 
Top of the line equip and builder. Another stock and maybe a 1 1/2oz trigger and a set of Mike Ezell flags will help a bunch.
 
Well why not?

RSRW,

Go ahead and shoot some matches. You are only a first timer once. Expect to enjoy yourself and worry about the score latter. You will learn a lot.

Concho Bill
 
Butch Lambert said:
Top of the line equip and builder. Another stock and maybe a 1 1/2oz trigger and a set of Mike Ezell flags will help a bunch.
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Butch I am replacing the trigger over the winter. I figure if I can reduce my pull a bit I might be able to tighten the groups up a bit. I have already started looking into wind flags. Don’t laugh, but I have been using surveyors tape on thin bamboo rods up to now.
 
rsrw said:
Butch I am replacing the trigger over the winter. I figure if I can reduce my pull a bit I might be able to tighten the groups up a bit. I have already started looking into wind flags. Don’t laugh, but I have been using surveyors tape on thin bamboo rods up to now.
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That beats nothing, by a lot. At least you know the importance of some sort of flag. That's way ahead of a lot of new shooters.
 
Hunter said:
I'm lost. I don't understand those three sentences. Is the comma in the second sentence a typo? Also, I don't understand the "one each one" part at the end of the second sentence.

Are you shooting three targets that have five bulls on each target, and shooting five-shot groups on each bull? If so, that would be 15 groups, as you said; but, if so, what do you mean by the first sentence?

Let us know how the match goes for you tomorrow.
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I looked at my response again, no wonder it’s not clear to you. When I read it back it wasn’t clear to me. I shoot a target known as a sight in target. It has 5 diamonds on each target. On any given range day I put up three of them, so I have a total of 15 diamonds to shoot at. I thought your question was, have I ever shot five targets that have five bulls each on them for a total of 25 bulls. That I have not done. I only shoot 15 each time. I really don’t know what size the diamonds on my targets are as they are nothing more than a point of aim for my first of five shots fort a group. Hope this help. Let me know if it doesn’t and I’ll try again.
 
Hunter said:
I'm lost. I don't understand those three sentences. Is the comma in the second sentence a typo? Also, I don't understand the "one each one" part at the end of the second sentence.

Are you shooting three targets that have five bulls on each target, and shooting five-shot groups on each bull? If so, that would be 15 groups, as you said; but, if so, what do you mean by the first sentence?

Let us know how the match goes for you tomorrow.
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Sounds to me like he's shooting score targets. As we know, if a gun won't group, it won't score well either. It may take some time but I think we should help and encourage new shooters as they venture into this. Not that you aren't, but we all started somewhere and we all want the best from ourselves and our equipment. The fun we have together doing it is a big bonus!

I think it's very true, that all score shooters shoot groups but not all group shooters shoot score. The main thing is that the accuracy bug has bitten him and he's at the right place to feed his new addiction.

Some people are happy with minute of pie plate. Clearly, he's not that type and neither is anyone else on here. So, he's off to a good start! He'll catch on to the jargon quickly and figure out if he wants to pursue this game or not, with some encouragement and a little help along the way.

Personally, I get excited for new shooters when they show the kind of interest that he has. I started out with a m70 Winchester Heavy
Varminter that was an honest .25 moa factory rifle. Those things would flat shoot for a factory gun. Before that, I was just a pretty good shot like so many on here. It took time and patience from those willing to help me learn...and I'm still learning. When I quit learning and my hand stops shaking when trying my best to hit that last chigger or last bullet through the same hole as the other 4...it's time to quit. Fortunately, I can play this game for years to come, if the Lord sees fit for me to. I don't have to be able to run 5 minute miles to compete at this and to have a lot of fun with some of the best people I've ever met, anywhere.

As much as we like shooting, you can never discount the value of the many good friends I have gained in this sport. We are truly an amazing group, where we can entrust thousands of dollars worth of equipment with most any of them without a second thought. I ship thousands of dollars worth of products all over the place, often without payment up front and have only been beaten out of money once in over 20 years of this. I've had, IIRC, two bad checks that were made good almost immediately..honest mistakes. What other business could I be in and say that? I can't think of any!

Just a great bunch of people in the BR community. We're a small group, where we all know each other, either directly or indirectly and we help each other when needed. It's much like a big family of the best people you could hope for in it.
 
Hunter said:
I'm still lost. Can you describe how you measure your groups? Can you post a picture?
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I have attached two photos of a random group that is a Caldwell “Site-In” target. Used to sight in riflescopes. It actually has five diamonds on it total. The problem I had with this target the orange stuff was peeling off way wide of the actual cut hole. I have also attached a photo of the target I have switched to. It also has five targets on each paper. I use the diamonds or crosses as nothing more than an aiming point for my first shot of the five shot group. Their relative size does not matter to me. It just gives me five places to start my groups on each paper.

To measure the group size I first go to the back of the target and push the “cuttings” forward to form a clear view of the actual cut hole. I then use the IBS official scoring reticle and a digital caliber to read the center to center distance of the two widest shots. I will also double check it by measuring the widest point on the outside of the holes and subtracting the diameter of the 223 bullet, .224 inches. I hope I have said all of this correct and hope it answers you questions.

DFD06D8F-FEC0-43A4-8F94-7E4614E35ABC.jpeg085FAA0D-BD1C-49B2-BA17-454CC9AD693E.jpeg11C2CA8F-6069-4AD8-82C0-B3057BA18643.jpeg
 
splatter/coated targets are next to impossible to measure.
wrong type of paper for good holes the splatter just confuses things.
neither of those groups appear to be 1's, both appear to be close to 2 bullet dia.
 
rsmithsr said:
splatter/coated targets are next to impossible to measure.
wrong type of paper for good holes the splatter just confuses things.
neither of those groups appear to be 1's, both appear to be close to 2 bullet dia.
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I know the splatter paper is no good, that is why I stopped using it, as I said. I have switched to regular paper, the white one with red graphics, that is the third photo. Again, as I said in my post, this is just a random group that is on my phone to show the target. I never said this was a .1 or .2 moa group. Other than a photo on my phone I have no idea what size it would be. However, it look to be about a .2 or .25 though. If I recall correctly, but I am not sure, this was taken when I was trying out some Hornady ELD match bullets as a possible replacement for the Nosler’s I have been using. Oh, by the way it’s the same target in both photos. One shot is just a little closer. I do thank you for responding however and do agree with your advice about the style targets. Take care.
 
Targets?

Anyone know of where he can buy some proper practice targets on the good paper? Last I got was from Kelbly and that was years ago. I remember the trouble I had in the beginning finding good targets.
 
i go to staples or such and buy paper by weight.
currently using 67 lb vellum.
then print on my home printer for short range targets
just put a fresh backer behind it
 
FWIW, I think you can still buy A BR target stamp pad. Sinclair used to sell’em.
That, and an inkpad......usually use pistol target turned over and you get 15-20 groups per sheet. Pretty easy.
 
rsrw said:
Butch I am replacing the trigger over the winter. I figure if I can reduce my pull a bit I might be able to tighten the groups up a bit. I have already started looking into wind flags. Don’t laugh, but I have been using surveyors tape on thin bamboo rods up to now.
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Just get a BR trigger that fits your action.
Most are Rem 700 compatible.

Jewell Triggers are still very very good.

I use one on my Panda varmint rifle.
Set at less than one ounce.
 
Hunter said:
If five bullets went through that hole at 100 yards and that group is typical of your other groups (as implied in post # 1 above), you'll be competitive in most any match -- score or group. Take that gun to a match, have fun and let us know how you do.

BTW, I still wonder what you meant in post # 23 above, where you said you "have not shot 5, five shot groups on the same day," whereas in the next two sentences you said you typically shoot 15 groups a day. Am I misreading something?
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Feller, I think he is saying he shot 15 shots at hunter targets or 3 targets with 5 Xs or bullseye on each of the 3 targets.
 
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