Sporter and THREE Gun Nationals

Pete,

Me too.

I also bought one of his Suhl, which turned out to be the best gun I've ever owned, and still can't figure out what I was thinking when I sold it? That gun always kept me right near the top if I used the right ammo. Never found anything after that that could keep up. Oh well, a mistake I will always question. I know I've questioned making it multiple times since.

Dave
 
Meeting Agenda

Also happening at the Nationals is the Annual meeting which includes the following agenda.
AGENDA IR50/50
2016 Meeting
1. Protest Fees and Rules
Not sure what this is all about. Don't see the need to change anything here myself.
2. Rule Change requiring protests to be scored in the same manner as original
scoring
Scoring should be consistently done throughout the match IMO. Thought it was a rule but isn't.
3. Sanctioning of the IR50/50 portion of the Triple Crown
Why not? There's a bunch of shooters there & should benefit from having shot the match. Its the largest match IR50 has all year!
4. Adding months to the List Season
Don't really see a need for this. April-thru Oct is enough for me. Not that I won't shoot anywhere, anytime.
5. Removal of restrictions on 3-Gun Matches
I'm guessing this means the # of matches a club can hold?? I'm undecided & have opinions that go either way.

So that's going on this weekend too. For those of you that may not be able to make it, it would be nice to at least hear your thoughts on the agenda.

Keith
 
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linekin said:
Also happening at the Nationals is the Annual meeting which includes the following agenda.
AGENDA IR50/50
2016 Meeting
1. Protest Fees and Rules
Not sure what this is all about. Don't see the need to change anything here myself.
2. Rule Change requiring protests to be scored in the same manner as original
scoring
Scoring should be consistently done throughout the match IMO. Thought it was a rule but isn't.
3. Sanctioning of the IR50/50 portion of the Triple Crown
Why not? There's a bunch of shooters there & should benefit from having shot the match. Its the largest match IR50 has all year!
4. Adding months to the List Season
Don't really see a need for this. April-thru Oct is enough for me. Not that I won't shoot anywhere, anytime.
5. Removal of restrictions on 3-Gun Matches
I'm guessing this means the # of matches a club can hold?? I'm undecided & have opinions that go either way.

So that's going on this weekend too. For those of you that may not be able to make it, it would be nice to at least hear your thoughts on the agenda.

Keith
Click to expand...

Keith,

Thanks for posting the meeting agenda. Hope Wayne adds some detail because I don't understand all the items of discussion.

One thing I do understand is item 3. The IR 50/50 portion of the Triple Crown should be sanctioned. There were more than three times the number of shooters at the IR 50/50 portion of the Triple Crown than were at the IR 50/50 Unlimited Nationals. While the Triple Crown only shoots yards, that does not diminish the fact that you are shooting against three, or more times the number of shooters.

Sanctioning would enhances the Triple Crown, while recognizing IR 50/50 shooting achievement. Records should be kept, and Hall of Fame points awarded.
TKH
 
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tim said:
Keith, or anybody for that matter, exactly what does #2 mean?
Click to expand...

2. Rule Change requiring protests to be scored in the same manner as original
scoring

Tim, this is how I understand it. Might be a little off but don't think so.
A scorer chooses how the read each bull in the box. Either with a light on, or with it off. Doesn't matter. The referees will then do it the same exact way.
I think that also the whole target is scored with the light on or off. Scorers choice. Not just the bull that need to be plugged. The whole target looked at in the same manner.
I think Consistency is all that's being asked for.

Keith
 
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linekin said:
2. Rule Change requiring protests to be scored in the same manner as original
scoring

Tim, this is how I understand it. Might be a little off but don't think so.
A scorer chooses how the read each bull in the box. Either with a light on, or with it off. Doesn't matter. The referees will then do it the same exact way.
I think that also the whole target is scored with the light on or off. Scorers choice. Not just the bull that need to be plugged. The whole target looked at in the same manner.
I think Consistency is all that's being asked for.

Keith
Click to expand...

I think you have it exactly Kieth. If they score it out in the sunlight with plug and magnifier the protest needs to be looked at in the same fashion.If they use a light box with the light off then the protest needs to be done that way, if the light is on then the protest should match, I do believe that is what whoever has proposed this is after.
MC
 
linekin said:
2. Rule Change requiring protests to be scored in the same manner as original
scoring

Tim, this is how I understand it. Might be a little off but don't think so.
A scorer chooses how the read each bull in the box. Either with a light on, or with it off. Doesn't matter. The referees will then do it the same exact way.
I think that also the whole target is scored with the light on or off. Scorers choice. Not just the bull that need to be plugged. The whole target looked at in the same manner.
I think Consistency is all that's being asked for.

Keith
Click to expand...

Keith are you saying if one ask for one bull to be re scored the entire target would be re scored? If so one could end up with a lower score than before the protest! That may reduce the number of protest! Not a bad idea!
 
MIKECAMERON said:
I think you have it exactly Kieth. If they score it out in the sunlight with plug and magnifier the protest needs to be looked at in the same fashion.If they use a light box with the light off then the protest needs to be done that way, if the light is on then the protest should match, I do believe that is what whoever has proposed this is after.
MC
Click to expand...

Think about that for a moment. Two wrongs make a bigger wrong for crying out loud.
Probably the best available methodology at hand resolves any issues but I cannot imagine any circumstance where protests, or scoring for that matter, should'nt use the best resorces available. If some nitwit forgets to turn on the lightbox why make it harder on refs. You're reviewing the target not the scorer( hopefuly).

I recall now the probable instance that generated this. Correct me if I'm wrong but there was a match where a lightbox was forgotten and then it showed up.
 
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tonykharper said:
Keith are you saying if one ask for one bull to be re scored the entire target would be re scored? If so one could end up with a lower score than before the protest! That may reduce the number of protest! Not a bad idea!
Click to expand...

Tony, I don't think that is its intent. I believe that it involves using the same method throughout the scoring process. From the scorer, then to the referees. Same system.
To score a card without the light & come to a "plugger" & turn the light on to score it, then off again (I think) is in question. The targets should be scored, or protests reviewed, in the same manner is the question.
I see Tim's point as to let the refs use the best means available though. In the end, they make the decisions at the match. Not the MD, scorer, or statistician, correct?

Keith
 
linekin said:
Tony, I don't think that is its intent. I believe that it involves using the same method throughout the scoring process. From the scorer, then to the referees. Same system.
To score a card without the light & come to a "plugger" & turn the light on to score it, then off again (I think) is in question. The targets should be scored, or protests reviewed, in the same manner is the question.
I see Tim's point as to let the refs use the best means available though. In the end, they make the decisions at the match. Not the MD, scorer, or statistician, correct?

Keith
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I think everyone knows I'm not a fan of plugs. But I will not
Go into that now!
TKH
 
linekin said:
Tony, I don't think that is its intent. I believe that it involves using the same method throughout the scoring process. From the scorer, then to the referees. Same system.
To score a card without the light & come to a "plugger" & turn the light on to score it, then off again (I think) is in question. The targets should be scored, or protests reviewed, in the same manner is the question.
I see Tim's point as to let the refs use the best means available though. In the end, they make the decisions at the match. Not the MD, scorer, or statistician, correct?

Keith
Click to expand...

I should probably say that, without question, making sure the scorer uses the best system available and throughout avoids all issues for everybody.
 
tim said:
Think about that for a moment. Two wrongs make a bigger wrong for crying out loud.
Probably the best available methodology at hand resolves any issues but I cannot imagine any circumstance where protests, or scoring for that matter, should'nt use the best resorces available. If some nitwit forgets to turn on the lightbox why make it harder on refs. You're reviewing the target not the scorer( hopefuly).

I recall now the probable instance that generated this. Correct me if I'm wrong but there was a match where a lightbox was forgotten and then it showed up.
Click to expand...

I don't know what has brought this question up. My idea would be to make sure the target is CORRECTLY SCORED, no matter what system you have to use. If it were left up to me there would be computer scoring across the board. I agree with Tony about plugs and would be perfectly fine with whatever the target shows as the score, if the hole doesn't touch the line then it is out, if it doesn't touch the dot it isn't an x, that would be fine to me and would do away with a good many protests.
MC
 
I will say this In my opinion I think the new plug and magnifier has really helped and has been a very good thing for scoring.
MC
 
MIKECAMERON said:
I don't know what has brought this question up. My idea would be to make sure the target is CORRECTLY SCORED, no matter what system you have to use. If it were left up to me there would be computer scoring across the board. I agree with Tony about plugs and would be perfectly fine with whatever the target shows as the score, if the hole doesn't touch the line then it is out, if it doesn't touch the dot it isn't an x, that would be fine to me and would do away with a good many protests.
MC
Click to expand...

Amen!!!
 
IR 50/50 Sporter and Three Gun Nationals 2016

Weather for the Sporter, and Three Gun IR 50/50 Nationals
Kettlefoot, Bristol, Va.

The weather in Bristol looks good for this weekend. Low 60’s to high 80s, both days.

Only a 10% chance of rain, and winds 5 mph. Saturday, and 4 mph. Sunday. Not bad for a Nationals weekend.

The range at Kettlefoot has been improved in recent years. If you attended the Triple Crown this year you saw many of the improvements. Indoor toilets, more overhang to improve the cleaning areas behind the benches. The parking areas have also been improved.

The one improvement that was most appreciated at the Triple Crown were the monitors installed outside, behind the benches. These monitors are trained on the computer screen in the scoring room. You can see your scores as soon as they are entered into the computer. There is nothing like instant conformation. Of course, if you don’t get the score you thought you shot, you still have the protest period.
Shooters were gathered around those monitors throughout the entire match keeping up to date on how the match was progressing, making it easy to know the scores you would need to keep up with the leaders.

I was told Bill Pippin was responsible for having the monitors installed. This is the same Bill Pippin of RFBR stock designing/building fame. The Pippin stock is the most popular, and most copied Bench rest Stock used in RFBR.

My last post on this year’s Sporter, and Three gun Nationals will be “ Tips” on how to shoot at the Kettlefoot range. It will be posted later.
TKH
 
IR 50/50 Sporter and Three Gun Nationals 2016

Congratulation to Mike Cameron on winning the IR 50/50 Three Gun Nationals Championship. Great shooting Mike. I know you think I put pressure on you by picking you as the winner before the match but that only proves the champion you are. You shot great, with all guns, and in all conditions. Shooting against champions like you is what makes this game fun for all.

The match was one of the best I’ve attended in a long time. First, the range was in great condition. Everything we needed was provided. The match was ran extremely well. Jim Jones and his crew had everything working like clockwork. The scoring was great. Wayne and his scoring crew were fast and efficient. Even the weather was good. Shooting conditions were good in the mornings, and got more difficult later in the day, but that is exactly what one would expect this time of the year.

The format for the match was changed this year. I believe it was a real improvement. We shot our three sporter (yards) targets from the same bench. Then took a lunch break and shot our sporter, 10.5lb. and 13.5 lb. targets from another bench. We drew both benches before the match started. With this format we only had to move flags, and benches, one time during the day. We did exactly the same for meters on Sunday. What may have been best of all was we all shot on the same relay. We lined up shoulder to shoulder and shot it out. Just the way it is supposed to be.

Numbers of shooters were down this year, and we would have liked to have had a better turn out. Be that as it may, we did have all the right shooters. We had all the scoreline leaders, and those that that had a good chance of winning a National Title. This eliminated a lot of the hussel bussel you have at the big matches. This gave everyone a chance to talk, and get to know one another better.

The annual meeting was held and some of the issues got worked out. Wayne will be putting it all together in the next few weeks. Keep an eye out for the changes. I think you will like some of them. One that is especially important for our game is sanctioning the IR 50/50 portion of the Triple Crown. Not only was it discussed that points be awarded for the match, but Hall of Fame points as well.

Perhaps if some of these ARA and PSL shooters wins some points, it will encourage them to participate in more IR 50/50 matches. These shooters can use their current equipment in IR 50/50 unlimited matches. If they join IR 50/50 at this level, perhaps some will go on to the more difficult three gun competitions. There are many great ARA and PSL shooters, and they would be most welcome.
TKH
 
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Thanks Tony

And congratulations to you in your Sporter National Championship.I was kidding you about the pressure from the post here but shooting against you is always plenty of pressure, mainly I didn't want to fall on my face after you picked me, I think we all knew you would be at the top and you were.It was a very well run match and because of the limited moving it was very enjoyable.I hope with the changes coming, which I think are going to be good for the sport , it is going to grow as the years go by, all we need to do now is get our ammo situation under control.:cool:
Good shooting Tony, Ill C ya on the range,
MC
 
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