Spiral Lock Threads?

I can remember making up quick connect sleeves with a tapered ACME thread. The purpose of the taper was simply to provide clearance when disassembling. As soon as the collar was loosened at all, everything was clear. The taper also meant that, when assembling, the pieces were almost together before any turning was necessary; yet there was four inches of connecting thread once tightened up. A special connection for special circumstances. Quick connect and disconnect and tolerant of a dirty environment. I think a similar connection might be used on some drill stems. Regards Bill.
 
Just to clarify.........my idea includes ONLY a slight bell in the action threads, the threads on the barrel shank are to be parallel.


wathog, I'm gonna' check some a' mine, I use perty smart gunsmith's ;)


al
 
Al,
I was aware of what you meant. Conversely, you could do it to the barrel instead and have the same effect without changing the action.

As Warthog said, there are acions on the market now that do this but I do believe they do it for assembly reasons. Actually, years ago, I measured a new action and found that in the thread so I inquired with the manufacturer about it. I actually was asking so that if they were not aware of their lathe needing trammed in, they could resolve it. I was told it was there by intent at which point I went on my way. I don't think you'll see any difference in this but it certainly won't hurt unless you go overboard and it does not sound like you intend to.
 
"I think a similar connection might be used on some drill stems. "

Yes- Good point Bill.

Glenn:D
 
Phil you forgot the part where you have already made actions!!!! If people new of your experience doing so they would take you even more seriously!!!
Some of us know you personally and don't doubt much of what you say!!!
BTW I hope the Bower clan is having a good winter!!! See ya in the spring. My daughter Erin says hello!!! You shouldn't have been nice to her she will be like that burdock stuck to your leg!!!!
 
h-bar,


It's 4mesh..... ;) .......I know it hurts but this board is read all over the world and 4mesh made the posts to which you're referring. There is no Phil on this board.


al





4mesh,


I thought of that first ..... obviously it seems to be taking a much LARGER step to bell the action.......................until you think it through. Not least of which is, when it's done and if it works one can thereafter chamber/thread in one setup.



Well, that is, IF one is inclined to do it thru the headstock ;)




LOL


al
 
HBar,

Tell Erin I said Hi as well. Tell her she's welcome to measure targets all day while I sit with a coffee and my feet propped up on the desk! Something tells me though she'll be the one with her feet propped up. I hope all is well in NY also. See ya in a few months.

Al,

You have no idea how right you are that there's no Phil here! It's a good thing too! :D

The more I think about this, this will be quite an interesting project to attempt on a Remington... Hmmm... I'm assuming you intend to use an engine lathe... most interesting... Thanks but no thanks! Sounds like a difficult prospect at best. Chasing .001, .0005/side in a cnc does not sound like a real hoot either. Better you'dn me. Might take less time to make a new receiver.

Anyways? What's this sissy-girl stuff about using a cheap action to try it? Ask anybody how afraid I am of trying stuff on a real action. May as well improve something you can be proud of when you're done!

If you screw it up, the worst case scenario is that your 1-1/8 16 Bat is now a 1-5/32 16! :cool: Haint no reason to be skeart. /edit/please chk sp on skeart! I think it's right!
 
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Not to throw a wet blanket on this party, but after reading Vaughn's book, I have to take some of what he wrote with a large dose of salt and I am just one of many who feel this same way. His experience and specialty did not originate nor end with small arms. He was a rocket guy. Some principles are the same and can obviously be extrapolated but other really can't. He used some inferior stuff to arrive at many of his conclusions with no realistic sampling.

He has a very fertile mind but I feel he took some liberties with some of his theories.

I have a rifle barreled by Greg Tannel and it supposedly has the aforementioned threads. It IS a Remington and I have no idea if it helped. I suppose a guy could barrel enough of each to come up with a realistic answer to this question. Vaughn did not- maybe Tannel did?

I suspect there are far more near-perfect rifles out there without than with spiralok threads-
 
Dennis,

The nice thing about Vaughn's book was that he didn't just say bla-bla-bla here's the answer. He said here's what I did and how, and this is what I found, if you want to try this, this is how to try it. That way if you wanted to make the experiment more accurate you could also do that. I don't think his area of expertise really matters. It's not like he was some idiot who couldn't be educated about two things in one lifetime. He also had some rather bright people to use for references (I think his son was one of em).

His sampling was enough to give a guy something to look for. Something to compare your own results to. If your result is the same as his, it's reasonably safe to say that on that test, his answer is reliable. If you test what he did and find a different answer, then I guess it's time to look farther, or decide who is wrong and why. Either way, you learn something new and the book was worth the retail cover price.

It's nice that you have the luxury of knowing even a little of the answer to this because you have a rifle with those threads to compare. These guys asking do not and they'd like to know first hand. Taking your word or mine for it is not going to teach them anything. For all I know, this thread might be the end-all-cure-all to accuracy. I didn't find that but that's not to say I didn't do something else wrong. With so many pieces to the puzzle, who knows.
 
threads from farrr away?

some actions have as much as .002 taper inside front to back,I would like to think that someone's cnc equip. can hold .0003 th or less or we all might be in trouble,when I first saw actions that locked on front shoulder as well on taper cone end of barrel shank to tapper in action cone hand made at that time on 338/378/KT 34" plus barrels,then fine thread came around because of more thread contact??, used on 20mm shoulder held rifles.then self locking,then one day had a gun shooting two separate points of impact,bad scope?loose mounts?bad bedding?stress?loose nut between driver and trigger?... Used J/B joined action to barrel,as you know we use jb to glue in actions,and yes you can take it apart,some center fire rifles have no threads just clamping force from split then clamped to together by bolts,nothing can beat a good square shoulder,and a few good threads,not as many as one might think. Hope someone can laugh about this,because I don't have a clue.
 
Pumba!........back slowly away from the keyboard, put down the bottle... no PUT down the bottle, don't drop it!


Ohhh, you CAN't......


ooops



Ok OK.....now just lay down here........theere ya' go.......you'll feel MUCH better in the morning.....


:D:D




ANYways.........I always love these wankers who pick on Vaughn (and there's been a LOT of them :) ) And YES Dennis I'm referring directly to you. :) Cite? Experiment? TEST of ANY sort??? Nope, just "I have to take some of what he wrote with a large dose of salt and I am just one of many who feel this same way."



Not ONE of you scoffers offers an alternative test or even a CITE! It's just "my buddy's friend said Vaughn was dumb because he shot this one time and HE found out that......." yada yada



I remember when Keith was alive and these gun hacks would PRINT this kinda' stuff and Ol' Elmer would invite 'em up and proceed to SHOW them how it WAS!






And here's the last one.... "I suspect there are far more near-perfect rifles out there without than with spiralok threads-" .....

WHERE does this stuff COME FROM???

Why should ANYone care what you "suspect"?

And what's a "near-perfect rifle"?



BACK IT UP MAN!!! On THIS board you gotta' do better than speculate if'n you're gonna' badmouth giants :D



LOL



al
 
4mesh-Hey any time you see Erin with me and you think she can help you do something like measure targets have at her!!! She loves to learn new things and really had a blast measuring targets. I know she would probably like to pull targets when she is not shooting also. She is one enterprising youth sometimes. Typical woman she loves money!!!!
 
dennisinaz,


I over-reacted to your reference to Harold Vaughn, I'm sorry. It's just that I met Harold before he passed and he was far from a blowhard, he asked that everyone check out what he'd found. I reacted to you when I was in fact reacting to the many guys who insistently bash Vaughn, some of them without even taking the time to understand just how committed he was to finding facts.


In re-reading my post I find it to be just a little over-the-top even WITH the smileyfaces......... :) (Even for ME!! :eek: )


I apologize. I don't know you well enough to get all up in your face.


:eek:



al



AND warthog,


I hope you understand that my post was in jest, prompted by THIS ((( " Hope someone can laugh about this,because I don't have a clue. " ))) quote..............


LOL


al
 
This thread has been a good read. As a machinist i can add just a little here. The nature of machining on either a CNC or on most workshop lathe means that a taper is part and parcel of machining an internal thread. Mainly due to flex of the cutting tool and limited number of finish cuts made. In our application of barrel fitting this is a good thing.
Warthog is right in saying that the Spiral Lock thread should be done to the internal reciever thread.
As for the question of tapered locking threads, there are literally hundreds of them, most coming from the oil drilling companies, most of which come from the US oil companies and are known as API threads. American Petroleum Industry. Tapers vary from 1 degree to 7 or more and are either square, acme, buttress or a flattened v form thread. Threads can be cut to be square to the rod axially or square to the taper itself and in almost all they have large clearance depth factored in to store debris. In almost all these thread forms there is a test piece for go and no go and is not a simple case like most gunsmiths use of a simple 60 or 55 degree v form thread. Most all of these threadforms require hundreds of foutpounds of lock up to mate together require special locking and lock breaking devices. For this reason, aswell as production costs, commercial companies do not use any of these for firearm assembly. They may have some advantage, but i think that would be hard to prove.
The Dryseal threads, or pipe threads as you call them, are a jointing thread where sealing is the primary objective and load bearing is not a requisite. These threads are used in the form of male taper to female parallel or male parallel to female taper. Taper to taper does not form a dryseal and could be used as a load bearing thread if needs be. But there are far better options.

Tony Z.
 
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