Southbend Lathe ...what's it worth?

[Gene Anderson]

SouthBend 14x52, 1 3/8" spindle bore, 3hp/3phase, 3hp to 5hp H/D phase converter, quick change gear box, variable speed, high-low gear...I don't know much about lathes, but think I can get this for a decent price. It was a school lathe and appears to be in great condition. Just trying to get a value on it. Thanks

Gene

 

[jackie schmidt]

Do you have a model number?

As with all used machines, condition is everything. Some pictures would help.

 

[Gene Anderson]

Do you have a model number?

As with all used machines, condition is everything. Some pictures would help.

Will try and get more info Jackie...and pics. For right now, that is all I know about the lathe. Thanks

Gene

 

[brickeyee]

Model; number is very important.
Any number of SB lathes had head-stock bushings instead of bearings.

 

[alinwa]

Model; number is very important.
Any number of SB lathes had head-stock bushings instead of bearings.

and??

 

[gfpd]

Model; number is very important.
Any number of SB lathes had head-stock bushings instead of bearings.

and so do high end grinders

 

[clowdis]

Entirely dependent on condition. Being in a school it has been used and probably abused by students who may or may not have had any idea on how to work it. See if you can move the spindle, just grab the chuck and shake it, to see if there is any play. Check the bed ways for wear as well as the lead screws. Then take a chance or not.

 

[martin zuck]

All of the older style south bend lathes had "auto style crank shaft bearings" in the head stock. Very seldom will you find an old south bend lathe so worn out that it will not do good gun work. This includes chamber work. The quality of work these old machines produce depend on the human factor!

 

[arnie19]

My 9 inch bearings can be tightened by cranking down on the bolts near the spindle .You have to be careful if run too hard then as the bearing will start to seize .

 

[JerrySharrett]

SouthBend 14x52, 1 3/8" spindle bore, 3hp/3phase, 3hp to 5hp H/D phase converter, quick change gear box, variable speed, high-low gear...I don't know much about lathes, but think I can get this for a decent price. It was a school lathe and appears to be in great condition. Just trying to get a value on it. Thanks

Gene

On doing benchrest barrel work on SB lathes larger than the Heavy 10, the headstock is too long to allow using a spider on the outside end. But if you are willing to use bushings on the outboard end then you can use this one. Or use a steadyrest.

As to SB spindles, they have shims that can be removed to tighten the spindle shaft. Since it is a "school" lathe I doubt if the original setup is that worn. Most "school" lathes have a bare spot in the headstock paint where they were leaned on.

Edit-what is it worth. Whatever you are willing to pay. Possibly as cheap as $2,500 or maybe as high as $7,500, partially depending on what tooling is included.


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[drumcorpschamp]

Gene,

I believe from your description of the machine that it is a South Bend Fourteen. The attached picture is my machine. Have chambered a number of barrels with this machine and they turned out great.

The headstock has tapered roller bearings on the spindle. I believe the machines were made in Spain in the 70's. There is plenty of information available online for these machines. Manuals, parts lists and some limited availability to "new/old stock" parts as well. I was able to purchase some accessories and repair parts for mine on Ebay.

The headstock is fairly short for a machine with a 14" swing. Not very beefy, but adequate. I can easily chamber a 28" barrel through the headstock, chucking the barrel in the adjust-tru chuck. I made a spider for the spindle nose to do shorter barrels.

They are not heavy duty machines, but are capable of doing good work. In decent shape, maybe $3k. I'd start low and see what you can steal it for.

PM me if you wish and we can have a conversation.

Best of luck,
Jerry Ware

 

[B.Larson]

Old South Bend Lathes

All of the older style south bend lathes had "auto style crank shaft bearings" in the head stock. Very seldom will you find an old south bend lathe so worn out that it will not do good gun work. This includes chamber work. The quality of work these old machines produce depend on the human factor!

+2

 

[jackie schmidt]

All of the older style south bend lathes had "auto style crank shaft bearings" in the head stock. Very seldom will you find an old south bend lathe so worn out that it will not do good gun work. This includes chamber work. The quality of work these old machines produce depend on the human factor!

True, both incorporate the concept of Plain Bearings, but it ends there.
Internal combustion engines have bearings that consist of multiple layers, a very strong steel backing with a plating such as copper, followed by en extremely thin layer of soft material, (Babbit), that rides against the bearing journal.

This principle requires a high pressure oiling system, which induces a thin film of oil between the mating parts. In short, when all is going well, the parts rarely touch in normal operation, as the oil film "wedges" between the parts.

In a lathe spindle such as incorporated in the South Bends, the bearings are a bronze alloy, with a non pressurized oiling system where the oil is constantly smeared on the parts.

Plain bearings work best in low RPM high load applications, where ball or roller bearings are best in a higher speed application. That is, if there is not a pressurized oiling system. A pressurized oiling system changes everything. A plain bearing with a true pressurized oiling system will take higher static and medium RPM loads. But, the oiling system must be present at all times.

One of the most remarkable applications of this principle is the huge Mount Polamar 200 inch Reflector Telescope. The main "shoe" that supports the massive 500 ton structure is a huge half moon that is babbited, with a constant oil pressure. The system is so friction free that the entire thing is powered by a motor that produces about 1/12 horsepower.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1948PASP...60..225R

South Bend Lathe Spindles are fine as long as they have oil. Even though it is non pressurized, the oiling wicks do a adequate job of supplying the plain spindle bearings at the speeds and loads encountered in normal use.

This is proved by the fact that multitudes of these small lathes are still giving good service, even though they could be twice as old as their owner.

 

[brickeyee]

Pressurized shell style bearings are hydrodynamic bearings.

The pressurized oil prevents the surfaces from actually touching during use.

In a typical vehicle engine 'wear' mainly occurs occurs for the first few seconds of use til there is adequate oil pressure.
You are relying on the oils film strength for those few seconds.

Larger engines have wider bearing area and may even have a system to pressurize the oil before starting them to further reduce wear.

We had a trailer with two massive diesel engines to drive a pair of alternators for 3-phase power.
Each had a small straight 4 cylinder mounted to them to provide starting power.
The starting engines also pressurized the lubrication system for the larger engines to reduce the starting load and reduce starting wear.
They actually had hydraulic systems to allow you to bring the larger engines up to speed.

Since you are relying on a fluid to separate the bearing surfaces you will never achieve the highest level of precision you can get with tapered roller bearings.

Defining 'good enough' depends on what you are trying to do, the tolerances you expect to produce, and the skill of the operator.

 

[Gene Anderson]

Still trying to get more information on this and pictures...the guy is elderly and is closing his welding/fab shop and is thinking about auctioning off the equipment versus selling things outright now...having a hard time getting him to let me take a look at it and get some pics. The information that I have was given to me by the guys brother in law, so I haven't even laid eyes on it yet...going to try to catch him this week and at least get the model and see what it looks like and go from there. Thanks for the information so far.

Gene

 

[Gene Anderson]

Gene,

I believe from your description of the machine that it is a South Bend Fourteen. The attached picture is my machine. Have chambered a number of barrels with this machine and they turned out great.

The headstock has tapered roller bearings on the spindle. I believe the machines were made in Spain in the 70's. There is plenty of information available online for these machines. Manuals, parts lists and some limited availability to "new/old stock" parts as well. I was able to purchase some accessories and repair parts for mine on Ebay.

The headstock is fairly short for a machine with a 14" swing. Not very beefy, but adequate. I can easily chamber a 28" barrel through the headstock, chucking the barrel in the adjust-tru chuck. I made a spider for the spindle nose to do shorter barrels.

They are not heavy duty machines, but are capable of doing good work. In decent shape, maybe $3k. I'd start low and see what you can steal it for.

PM me if you wish and we can have a conversation.

Best of luck,
Jerry WareView attachment 18424

Jerry, it is indeed the South Bend Model Fourteen...looks to be just like the picture you posted as far as condition. What should I look for as far as maybe being wore out? The 3 jaw chuck was out about .002 with a dial on it.

Gene