Small Rifle Match Primer question

B

bluegrassman

Guest
I just started shooting a custom 6mm ppc bench gun.
I am having a hard time finding the Federal match 205M primers in stock anywhere. I did buy some CCI small rifle match primers that are more expensive than the Federals. Has anyone compared the accuracy of the CCI match primers against the Federal match primers? I am getting good groups with the CCI primers, but wonder if the federals are more accurate.
It looks like 90% to 95% of you guys are using the federals.

Thanks, Mike
 
I was told by a Guy. That has a lot of trophies in his living room. It don't matter. Just try to use the same primers, all the time. Everything the same.
Bullets, brass, powder, primers, wind flags, etc. Try to use the same, every time you shoot.
And go to matches. Real matches. Any matches. Score, Group, Varmint...... It's the only way to learn.
And that way, you will see problems, faster. And it is all second nature.
I was shooting 2 guns. Not a good thing. Bad ju ju. :eek:
Oh, don't mix the powder in the barrel. Even though, we clean every 10-15 rounds.
Think I read this in a book, also.
Maybe some old guy told me.
 
Primers

100-200 yard Benchrest has become so specialized that it seems EVERYTHING becomes a major component in solving the Accuracy Equation.

Primers are part of the tuning window, just like neck tension, seating depth, and the powder charge. I suspect that any quality primer will give good results if the shooter arrives at his competitive tune with that primer, and sticks with it.

There is no doubt that the Federal 205 has become the industry standard whan it comes to 100-200 yard Benchrest. This all happened years ago, and we all stick with them because they do get the job done.

I am one of those shooters who subscribes to what zippy alluded to in his post. Once I find, (more like "stumble onto"), a combination that is very consistant and will win, it will take a something really monumental to get me off of it. We read all the time of the latest new item, whether it be a new bullet design, a new barrel configuration, or a new component such as a action design. I might invest in some of these, but untill it shows me a distinct advantage over what I am currently using, I probably will not committ to it for Match Shooting.

Mind you, I do keep close track with what Tony, Lester, Joe, or any other notables are doing, but in the end, I see how things actually work for me. I stay on top of the latest new items, but through the years, we have seen many items appear that seem, at first glance, to be a real break through, only to end up with the same percentage of success as what was already being used.

There is no reason that CCI should not work in our Arena. I think one thing going against it is the overly hard shell. The federal, combined with a properly fit firing pin aasy, seems to have the ideal cup hardness for VERY consistant ignition. Many shooters favour the harder shell of the CCI to overcome deficiencies in the basic equipment, such as scarred up firing pin tips, and firing pin to holefit that is way too sloppy.

Incidentally, don't pay more for the so called Federal "Match" primers. I, (and a multitude of other Benchrest Shooters), have been using the regular 205's for years and see no difference on the target...........jackie
 
205M vs 205

Ditto for Jackies' posting. "Precision Shooting" interviewed Tony Boyer a few years ago, part of the questions being what components he used. When he answered Federal 205 primers, he also commented that he could not find any difference between the two. I had been watching the equipment lists of components being used, and of course, it was heavily 205M. Over the next 6 to 8 months 205 began to outnumber 205M in use. I personally do not use match primers, unless someone is willing to sell them for "standard" prices, and believe it or not, some will.
 
Jackie. Thanks.
I am not good with words. But, I try to remember to use IE Spell. Now if there was an IE Grammar. I would be in hog heaven.
 
Word from a friend of mine who was CEO of CCI/Omark and the outfit that makes the Federals. When they start up a new batch, and after the machine settles in, they start more frequent inspection and boxing of the "match/Gold Metal" line. Now, who is to say that the first ones on a new batch are not as good?

If' I'm spending $3000 each for 3 guns, $250/1000 for bullets, $145/8-pound powder, $200 entry fee, $450/motorhome fuel, then I'm gonna' skimp the difference between $26/1000 and $31/1000 on primers?? Nope!!!
 
Jerry. Are you saying the only difference is more inspection?
If not. Do you know what the differnce is?
I am looking at the April PS......
I have always wondered about this.
Let's keep this going.
 
Zip ...

Here’s an article I found when doing some research on primers. It covers sizes, pressure, thickness, dimensions, etc.: http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php.

Also, there are three good articles in The Benchrest Shooting Primer (TBSP): More on Primers starting on page 8, Primer Tests page 131 and Primer Nonsense page 340.

If you don’t have a copy of TBSP it’s available from Precision Shooting Magazine. It has 176 articles covering BR from one end of the spectrum to the other. Good Stuff !!! Art
 
:) Art. Thanks.
I got the TBSP about 2 yrs ago. And I think I read the J. Calhoon stuff. Stuff has been rolling around, in my head, ever since.
Think the CRS is getting bad.

My thinking is, you get what you pay for. But, my friend with the trophies. Says using the same components builds consistency. If everything is the same. And you have confidence in your stuff. Then it is easier to troubleshoot. Is it you? The wind? Or the components?
I was using CCI BR4 primers. Then I could not get them. He said buy the stuff, that is always available. Then you won't run out. And everything is the same.
 
Zip ...

zippy06 said:
I was using CCI BR4 primers. Then I could not get them. He said buy the stuff, that is always available. Then you won't run out.
Click to expand...

I was also using BR4s. They were always available. Just for info. I called CCI about a month ago to see if it was paranoiacs induced depletion or another problem. I was told there was a technical problem in production and that they hadn’t produced any in 6 to 8 months . If there were any to be had, it was what remained in the logistics pipe line. The technical person I spoke with told me they had no idea when production would start again on the 4s. It was up to the engineers once the bugs were worked out. Art
 
zippy06 said:
Jerry. Are you saying the only difference is more inspection?
If not. Do you know what the differnce is?
I am looking at the April PS......
I have always wondered about this.
Let's keep this going.
Click to expand...


When I talked to the tech at Federal, I came away whit the the understanding that it is a statistical crap shoot is what separates the match primers from the also ran.

It is the testing done within each lot of primers, that makes the difference and is a mathematical statistic.
 
Big Al said:
When I talked to the tech at Federal, I came away whit the the understanding that it is a statistical crap shoot is what separates the match primers from the also ran.

It is the testing done within each lot of primers, that makes the difference and is a mathematical statistic.
Click to expand...

Big Al. Thanks.
The James Calhoon article is a good read. He has a cool web site. And I have seen some of his products. Very nice the 19-223 Calhoon.
 
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sweatshop primer labor

There is a lot of discussion on the difference between 205 and 205M Federal primers. Here is the difference: 205 primers are made near the Kyber pass in the tribal areas of Pakistan.Seven year old girls strain and then loose their eyesight making the little anvils that go into the primer cups. After they go blind they are publicly ridiculed by their families and stoned for being worthless. This contributes to a high turnover in help and possibly a greater chance of quality control issues. 205M primers are made in the USA by militant, unionized feminists wearing pants suits and comfortable shoes. They are covered with crossed ribbons of varied hues signifying multiple causes. I believe the gold colored one represents the stop enslaving my uterus party. They are vigilant, efficient and every once in a while stone their male coworkers for being worthless. So you see, this is much more then an economic issue. It is a moral dilemma. Which group do you support by buying their primers? Don't try to dodge the issue by buying a brand other then Federal. The others are just as bad. CCI's are made by slave labor in the Sudan. Wealthy, preferably white, middle aged widows are kidnapped and made to work in sweatshop conditions manufacturing CCI primers. The main communication from their male bosses is spitting on them. Those that are ransomed or escape immediately join the Federal 205M workforce. It is a vicious cycle. Tim
 
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JerrySharrett said:
If' I'm spending $3000 each for 3 guns, $250/1000 for bullets, $145/8-pound powder, $200 entry fee, $450/motorhome fuel, then I'm gonna' skimp the difference between $26/1000 and $31/1000 on primers?? Nope!!!
Click to expand...


I used to think that very same way until a few years ago when getting Federal primers of any kind was difficult and I was forced to shoot the "blue box" Federals and I shot some of my best aggs with them. Now, I buy either I can get and don't worry about it.
 
Tim Oltersdorf said:
There is a lot of discussion on the difference between 205 and 205M Federal primers. Here is the difference: 205 primers are made near the Kyber pass in the tribal areas of Pakistan.Seven year old girls strain and then loose their eyesight making the little anvils that go into the primer cups. After they go blind they are publicly ridiculed by their families and stoned for being worthless. This contributes to a high turnover in help and possibly a greater chance of quality control issues. 205M primers are made in the USA by militant, unionized feminists wearing pants suits and comfortable shoes. They are covered with crossed ribbons of varied hues signifying multiple causes. I believe the gold colored one represents the stop enslaving my uterus party. They are vigilant, efficient and every once in a while stone their male coworkers for being worthless. So you see, this much more then an economic issue. It is a moral dilemma. Which group do you support by buying their primers? Don't try to dodge the issue by buying a brand other then Federal. The others are just as bad. CCI's are made by slave labor in the Sudan. Wealthy, preferably white, middle aged widows are kidnapped and made to work in sweatshop conditions manufacturing CCI primers. The main communication from their male bosses is spitting on them. Those that are ransomed or escape immediately join the Federal 205M workforce. It is a vicious cycle. Tim
Click to expand...

Tim O.
Federal and CCI are owned by ATK.
How does that work out?

And ref. this.
Tour of Pakistani tribal gunmakers and shops
http://benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58775
 
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Corporate maleficence

There is only one explanation for this paradox: corporate greed run a muck. Now that we know the problem we know the solution: government money and reams of regulations.
Just wait until the government bureau of nitpicking gets its talons into ATK. They will get to the bottom of this. Tim
 
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Only Tim would know these covert activities

Tim Oltersdorf said:
There is a lot of discussion on the difference between 205 and 205M Federal primers. Here is the difference: 205 primers are made near the Kyber pass in the tribal areas of Pakistan.Seven year old girls strain and then loose their eyesight making the little anvils that go into the primer cups. After they go blind they are publicly ridiculed by their families and stoned for being worthless. This contributes to a high turnover in help and possibly a greater chance of quality control issues. 205M primers are made in the USA by militant, unionized feminists wearing pants suits and comfortable shoes. They are covered with crossed ribbons of varied hues signifying multiple causes. I believe the gold colored one represents the stop enslaving my uterus party. They are vigilant, efficient and every once in a while stone their male coworkers for being worthless. So you see, this much more then an economic issue. It is a moral dilemma. Which group do you support by buying their primers? Don't try to dodge the issue by buying a brand other then Federal. The others are just as bad. CCI's are made by slave labor in the Sudan. Wealthy, preferably white, middle aged widows are kidnapped and made to work in sweatshop conditions manufacturing CCI primers. The main communication from their male bosses is spitting on them. Those that are ransomed or escape immediately join the Federal 205M workforce. It is a vicious cycle. Tim
Click to expand...

If you had not dressed up like an 7 year old in Pakistan and a middle aged widow you could not have brought these heinous crimes to light. Don't tell us those stone bruises are really just an inconsistent suntan from sun spots. by the way Tim, how did you hide your gender when you had to squat in the street in the Sudan?? ;) -----Bill
 
The best and most consistent primers in the workd are Wolf Brand. They are made east of the Ural Mountains, in small secret factorys, by former Russing nuclear scientests. The cups are made with alloys of rare minerals and metals. The priming mixture itself is a super stable noncorrisive, compond that that is neither temprature or humidity sensative, and will last in storage for 73 years without loosing its ooomph. The anvils are produced by computer controlled machines and then hand weighted.
Federal claims its componants are accurate. Russian stuff IS accurate. Thats why they used to clean house in the Olympic shooting sports, back in the old days before the Olympic shooting sports quit using gunpowder and real ammunition. Nowthey are PC and only allow air rifles.
Bob
 
Ok

Only 25 minutes until Red Green. Quando, Omni, Flunkis, Moratatti.

Dave:cool:
 
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