Sizing Brass

S

Stilesville204

Guest
I'm going to be buying dies to shoot a 6PPC with a 262 neck, I have been told I can use a Redding small base bushing die for all of my sizing. Should a person neck size until you start to feel bolt handle tension, or can you just full length size as little as possible every time ?

Thanks Robert
 
IMO you want a bushing die that is a close fit to your chamber and only sizes just enough for your brass to function properly. When you have that sort of arrangement you can FL size and the brass is moved so little, that there is no reason to do so every time. Of course as with every FL die, you will need a way to measure cases so that you can properly set the die for shoulder bump. Rather than hope that a particular die will fit, I recommend that you send in perhaps three fired cases, that have been neck sized only and fired till they are tight as gauged by bolt lift to Harrell's Precision with your order for a custom fit FL bushing die. To accomplish this you can go ahead and order a bushing and tap it onto the necks just far enough to hold a bullet, removing it with padded pliers. Tape on the jaws should do the job. Harrell's has FL bushing dies in stock that vary in their base dimension. They will measure your cases and send you the correct die. It is common for shooters to associate all sorts of negative things with FL sizing because all of their experiences have been with dies that were not well matched to their chambers. Using a closely fitted die is an entirely different thing. One thing that you may want to consider is that because PPC cases tend to be used in small baches that get a lot of reloads, cases can work harden to the point where shoulders cannot be bumped without taking some metal off of the top of the shell holder.
http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/products/full-length-die
I should mention that the die will come with a brass piece that is designed to help you measure cases to set shoulder bump.
 
Sizing by bolt feel is not a good way.

You need to measure shoulder bump. If you size your cases back .002 on the shoulder and the bolt still feels sticky it's probably because the web didn't get sized enough. You need to measure up .200 from the case head.
I like to have .001 to .0015 sizing at this point.
Another great die maker is Jim Carstensen of JLC precision. He can sure make what you need.
A sizing die that fits YOUR chamber is a must for good brass life. And also get's rid "clicky" bolt issues, along with a lot of other annoying things.

Richard
 
One thing I'll mention here, because it needs to be mentioned, is the case web that Richard talked about. If you keep pushing the shoulder back to alleviate a problem caused the web you'll have a case separation at some point. Be careful what you do here!
 
Is that that the the reason I had the Redding small base die suggested to me ? Would it take care of the web ?


Richard said:
If you size your cases back .002 on the shoulder and the bolt still feels sticky it's probably because the web didn't get sized enough. You need to measure up .200 from the case head.

Richard
Click to expand...
 
The only way to know

is to measure. I have a piece of a bbl stub that I bored .200 deep. The case sets in that and I measure with a blade micrometer. What does your reamer print show .200 from the bolt face? I would guess right at .440

The redding small base might work and maybe not. They are not all the same. I went down that road along time ago and it is just a crap shoot.

Really the best thing you can do is send off some fired cases to whatever person you want to and have them make a die to fit. One big thing is I hope you have your own reamer or whoever is doing your bbls uses the same reamer everytime for your stuff. Just because it is a "6ppc" does not mean they are all the same. They are not!!

Richard
 
Yes Sir !

Richard said:
Just because it is a "6ppc" does not mean they are all the same. They are not!! Richard
Click to expand...


Richard, you sure got that right! :rolleyes:

On page 99 of his book, 'Extreme Rifle Accuracy' Mike Ratigan has this to say.

"Proper full length resizing is the single hardest mechanical thing we do."


+1 on that!

Gene Beggs
 
The problem I've seen with any of the Redding "small base dies" is that they are just plain small. They'll resize the base, but also resize the rest of the body way too much.

Jim
 
It's a used rifle, so if I get a die made from fired brass, then when that barrel quits shooting, that die will be useless and I'll need to buy a reamer and have the same gunsmith do the work every time to avoid having to buy a new sizing die for every barrel ? Does that make any sense ? ?
 
Used Harrell's dies come up for sale every now and then, and they sell well. For the PPC there are markings that indicate how much they size at the the base of the case. In that respect they are standardized. Instead of using a reamer to make the dies, the cavities are bored out with a boring bar on a CNC turning center. Dies are made up, and on the shelf so that when they determine what your chamber requires, it is already there and waiting to be shipped. Because of his marking system, buyers of used dies can have a fairly precise idea of what they are getting, and are therefore able to buy with some confidence. I believe that his are the only PPC dies that are marked in that way. I get your point about it being a used barrel. If someone you know shoots a PPC, and uses a Redding die, perhaps he might size one of your sized cases that had been measured as fired and then you could measure it after sizing to see how much (if any) his die reduced the diameter of your case. If the sizing was good, you could buy the same die. In addition to Redding, Hornady and RCBS make bushing FL dies for the PPC. The advantage of the Harrell's die is that you know that it would fit, and if you needed a different one for a new barrel (possibly cut with your own reamer so that all subsequent barrels would take the same die) there would probably be a ready market for it.
 
I would send three fired cases to Harrells and get something that works at a reasonable price……… jim
 
Stilesville204 said:
It's a used rifle, so if I get a die made from fired brass, then when that barrel quits shooting, that die will be useless and I'll need to buy a reamer and have the same gunsmith do the work every time to avoid having to buy a new sizing die for every barrel ? Does that make any sense ? ��
Click to expand...

Just to put things in perspective, a Harrell's bushing die will cost just a little more than a couple hundred 68gr match bullets. For the most part tools like this don't wear out and will be useful for a very long time. Depending on which Harrell's die you are sent, there is a good chance it will fit your next barrel. Even if it doesn't $60-70 isn't much to spend on ammo that fits your chamber.

Rick
 
There is great advice given in this thread by shooters who know of what they speak. I was lucky when I first started shooting competition in that HOF shooter Pat Byrne gave me the advice related here about pushing shoulder back and MEASURING, not by feel. The webb can give us a feel that indicates a need to push the shoulder back more. Also, I got dies from Jim Carstensen for my .22 PPC-short and from the late Jerry Simison for the PPC that he chambered. Jerry gave me three FL dies and told me to try them and see which one worked best and return the other two. This was many years ago and I am still using that die today. A die MUST match your chamber ..... if it doesn't follow Mike Ratigan's formula for correcting it, i.e. throw it in the nearest lake and wait for five years to try it again.:p Good shooting, James
 
The other side of this is that if you spend 10 years just making do, you'll have a die that fits just about anything that's remotely a 6PPC. Listen to what these folks are saying. A rifle will likely shoot just as accurately if the cases don't fit well but there are other factors that make this a bad deal. You either have to have a rifle that shoots through a lot of stuff or be at "one" with the conditions. You can't be the latter with a difficult bolt operation...nobody can.
 
If I am reading this correctly you are buying a die for a used barrel correct? How many rounds are thru the barrel? Would it be better (cheaper in the long run) to get a new barrel, get a die to match that chamber. If possible have that smith set back the used barrel so you will have 2 barrels with the same chamber.
 
Not a bad idea, thanks everyone for the replies.


MRL said:
If I am reading this correctly you are buying a die for a used barrel correct? How many rounds are thru the barrel? Would it be better (cheaper in the long run) to get a new barrel, get a die to match that chamber. If possible have that smith set back the used barrel so you will have 2 barrels with the same chamber.
Click to expand...
 
Smart money is to get your own reamer, and a die to fit it then barrel to barrel is the same……. jim
 
That's really a good idea, to buy a reamer, but it only fixes the die issue. Getting a rifle that shoots well is another story. Just sayin'

Follow the popularity of gunsmiths for a few years and you'll catch what I'm alluding to here. Basically what I'm trying to say is that there are good reamers and bad reamers and they all seem the same. You can't tell the difference by looking or measuring...just by shooting. Yep, I could be wrong but there's enough evidence to make this horribly broad statement.
 
I've done my best to get that by buying the rifle from a HOF shooter with a lot of points, he says the rifle will shoot to a high standard. I won't drop names, but he answers his phone any time I call him, and as sceptical as I am anymore, I believe him. I've seen a couple of brand new barrels that wouldn't shoot for anything, so I'm not sure that's always a given either. The real determining factor in the equation will almost surely be the trigger puller, I'm sure the gun will be much better than me. ? I appreciate all of the help.

Wilbur said:
Getting a rifle that shoots well is another story. Just sayin'
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top