Since They Have Been Out a While, What is the Scoop on the March Scopes

goodgrouper said:
No, but buying a March doesn't guarantee a national championship win either. I have heard many guys say they're going to kick some butt now that they have a March and my silly old Leupy managed to "steal" the win from them anyway.

Another point: Leupold could come out with a factory locked, carbon fiber, super duper, beat all scope and charge $10,000 for it and there would be guys who would buy it just because it "was the most expensive scope I could find".
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Jim,
How many "Top shooters" in the major shoots have said that to you? I doubt any have. On a local level, it's been all in fun when we tease each other about who has the Marchs. In the end it usually is the better shooter that wins each agg. Some shooters that make this their full time occupation don't want to take any chances and have no problem spending the money. Look at the equipment lists of major matches, there are many top shooters using Marchs now-and that says something other than "it's a trend". Some of these guys have been at it for decades and tried many scope combinations, I certainly wouldn't write off their opinions as a trend.

There are also many Luepolds out there that are holding their point of aim-other major shooters as well as locals have proven that also. In the end, it comes down to what works for the individual shooter. He has to trust his equipment-there are too many other things to worry about besides "Scope worms". Another well known shooter uses that term-and it's a good one!

Mike Paul
 
Mike Paul said:
Jim,
How many "Top shooters" in the major shoots have said that to you? I doubt any have. On a local level, it's been all in fun when we tease each other about who has the Marchs. In the end it usually is the better shooter that wins each agg. Some shooters that make this their full time occupation don't want to take any chances and have no problem spending the money. Look at the equipment lists of major matches, there are many top shooters using Marchs now-and that says something other than "it's a trend". Some of these guys have been at it for decades and tried many scope combinations, I certainly wouldn't write off their opinions as a trend.

Mike Paul
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Mike,
None of the "top shooters" have said that directly to me. When I have heard shooters brag about their March ownership, it has usually been on the firing line before the shooting begins or in the loading areas and I have overheard it and just smiled. There has even been some of that on this site.
I think the true "top shooters" would never make a statement like that as they know better. A scope isn't a guaranteed agg shrinker just because it costs more than most built rifles and they know this. In the end, it's the butt behind the nut that makes the difference.
Granted that there are lots of good shooters using March, and I don't think it's just a trend or fad. Some of those guys don't have the time to mess around with multiple scopes, freezing, and troubleshooting. So if they can buy a scope they know won't have those problems, they won't care what it costs if it saves them time. But again, if the shooter isn't doing well, the scope isn't going to correct his errors.

On the local level, I think you know the fellow(s) that jokingly or half-jokingly insinuated the rest of us were in trouble if we didn't get the new March scopes. It's ok. Trying to intimidate others either directly or indirectly is part of the game. But I don't fall for it. If owning a $2000 scope makes you feel better, then buy it and have fun. If you have the money for it and it shrinks your aggs, then good for you. But I certainly won't feel "under-scoped" going to the line with a Leupold or even a nice Weaver. For years in the long range game, I heard how NIghtforce scopes were "so much better than a Leupold" and that if you didn't get one, you were losing out (deja-vu?) but after extensive testing and shooting to distances in excess of 1 mile, I never was able to shoot tighter groups with the Nightforce. They were great made scopes and certainly clear and bright, but so were my Leupold's and they costed hundreds less.
In the end, I guess it's what floats your boat. That's all I'm saying.;)
 
Jim

I got your point exactly.

We spend way to much money and put forth way too much effort to take chances. It might not sound like much of a deal to the non competitior, but when a scope decides to shift POA about three lines worth in the middle of a championship agg, much is wasted.

That is the very reason many of us finally did something about it when we started freezing scopes. The frozen route is still a viable option to those with several 36x or 45x scopes, and do not wish to spend $2100+ dollars on a scope.

But if the March is truley living up to the claims, then $2100 is not that much when you consider what can be wasted with a scope that is less than up tothe task.

One concern I do have is getting one worked on. Someone mentioned that the scope is designed to NOT be taken apart. If the warranty runs out, and something does go amiss, does this mean you have to buy a new scope to "fix" the bad one?? I think this is a valid question........jackie
 
Jackie

Thanks--yes you got it. Good grouper did not get it. This is not about bragging about an expensive scope--I have lost 2 national Championship aggregates because of a very popular brand giving up POI reliability at the end of the aggregate.

the warranty did me no use after the aggregates were gone.....
Yes--I have had frozen scopes work for me as well.

Jim
 
Jim Borden said:
Thanks--yes you got it. Good grouper did not get it. This is not about bragging about an expensive scope--I have lost 2 national Championship aggregates because of a very popular brand giving up POI reliability at the end of the aggregate.

the warranty did me no use after the aggregates were gone.....
Yes--I have had frozen scopes work for me as well.

Jim
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Actually, I did get what you were saying. Yet I still can't figure out how you can say that something is so foolproof that you will never need a warranty. Nothing man made is immune to breaking and even the March scope company won't have a pit crew there at a match to fix your scope IF it goes bad and the agg will still be lost. Or are you banking on never having anything go wrong with the March? Wouldn't the smarter thing be to have a spare scope ready to throw on?
 
Warranty, POI, etc.

Jackie:

To answer your question – there were a few complaints about a focusing problem when the scopes were first released. These were replaced or repaired for the customers at no charge.

In fact, to my knowledge, in spite of the stated warranty from Deon Corp., there have been no charges billed to any customer to date…even though a few of the scopes that were sent back were damaged to do improper installation and other abuse.

Several of the claimed POI issues that a handful of benchrest shooters claimed to have had are inconclusive…even after rigorous testing, yet they weren’t charged a dime. I presume this is because the Deon Corp legitimately wants to exhaust all possibilities. I can assure you that the optical engineers that run this company are fanatics about high standards and exhaustive test procedures. Testing these scopes is an involved process. Subsequent disassembly and reassembly of one is quite labor intensive.

I suppose that it’s easy to sneer at the five-year warranty on an expensive product such as this. Apparently this is a common standard in the Japanese high-end optics market. For example, a quick internet search on Nikon Nikkor lens systems (regardless of cost) is limited to five-years.

Keep in mind; this is a company composed of four engineers. They do not have an army of high school or college students on summer break working on an assembly line putting these things together. One is paying for a highly experienced optics engineer to assemble these scopes. They are built with the highest quality materials, and a lot of R&D went into their development...a truly custom scope…just like an expensive custom benchrest rifle, or any other custom target rifle for that matter. These scopes are not a typical manufactured product – just like a custom target rifle. This is why they are so expensive. One of the top shooters in the game described them as “test instrument quality” optical devices.

Sometimes I find it hard not to laugh when some complain about the cost of a custom built scope. Some of these same shooters think nothing of spending thousands of dollars per year on rifle barrels, and swap them out more often than they change socks. Why, maybe they should ask that the barrels should have a zero-group guarantee! Would that be any more absurd than asking for a 100% no POI change or a lifetime warranty?

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.
 
need dependability

goodgrouper said:
Actually, I did get what you were saying. Yet I still can't figure out how you can say that something is so foolproof that you will never need a warranty. Nothing man made is immune to breaking and even the March scope company won't have a pit crew there at a match to fix your scope IF it goes bad and the agg will still be lost. Or are you banking on never having anything go wrong with the March? Wouldn't the smarter thing be to have a spare scope ready to throw on?
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Spares do no good after damage is done! And yes I keep spares--but the point is ---I am not saying that March will not ever shift POI--but my 2 have not yet and I know from experience with another make that it is not if it is going to happen--the question is when. Products that are manufactured to have low tolerance and good procedures in assembly to limit variability of the build should have a longer life than those that use broader specs and routine production assembly.

Quite different strategic and tactical viewpoints on approaching competition.
 
I'm starting to get annoyed

It bothers me that my wifes car costs as much as it did and I only get a 5 year warranty. And thats only if the Cadalliac guys can wiggle out of it.
 
It is a matter of what you are looking for,,

A shooter has to decide what they are into benchrest shooting to accomplish. If they are looking to have fun, mingle with super nice friendly people who share the interest, and enjoy rifle shooting then they don't need a March scope, $260 per thousand bullets, 5 or 10 barrels and so on. But if they are truly trying to be competitive and win once in a while or on a regular basis then getting the best equipment is what you need to do. As my friend Bernie Burby told me early on "if your going to compete with the big boys you have to use what the big boys use".

I feel that if you are in it to win you need to make use of every advantage allowed under the rules. That means using the best equipment that the regular winners are using, experimenting with new ideas like tuners yourself rather than just read forums about them, and practice, practice practice.

At the Nationals in August at Kelbly's I purchased 2 March 50X HR scopes. I especially like the high reticle and find it helpfull at 200 yards. The scope light, clarity and crisp adjustments are fabulous. The 5 year warranty and the fact that this is a small company in Japan was a consideration, which I have vocalized as you know. But after talking to dozens of March users I felt comfortable that the risk of needing constant, or even minimal, repairs was not an issue.

I think every shooter needs to decide for themselves what to use. There are a lot of scopes out there that will work just fine at all price points. I also don't think it is fair to bash or bad mouth a scope because it costs more money than you want to invest in one, whether you can afford it or not, or the warranty isn't what you would prefur. Just don't buy one.

Sorry to go on and on but that's my take on the matter.

Shoot more zeros,
Al Blackwell
 
Al, that was well said.I do not have a March, but if I get a lettle better off I might have one. My Grandson said he was going to get the first one.Yeah, Papaw is loaded!
Butch
 
I've shot against a lot of people that use March scope and they beat me on regular basis its not because of the scope its because there better shooters than I am. With that said if my SS income was a little higher I would buy a couple today.
 
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