Sightron

Unfortunately, the March scopes are like Night force in the weight department--heavy!

Did I get cheated? Maybe March shorted me on the internals....my March 50X scales 21.1 ounces, and the assorted Nightforce vary from 33 to 36 ounces. That puts the Nightforce at 150% fat and makes the March tie with a Leupold Competition which is the lightest, high power, 30MM bench rest scope I'm aware of. What's the deal:rolleyes:
 
But in eight years, the SIghtron to Leupy return ratio was 20 to 1. Maybe even higher. And the ratio of Leupy's to SIghtron on ANY benchrest match firing line (point blank,600,1000) is also about 20 to 1 and maybe higher at the bigger shoots. You can argue relatives all day long but you can't deny the equipment lists.;)

GG- I totally respect your opinions as I know how much experience you have with this stuff.....BUT I have an educated guess that there are not many SIII's on the BR circuit. Also, when you were in sales, I don't believe the SIII was around (I could be wrong).

Again, the SIII is awesome! The SI, and SII, and even very early versions of the SIII are inferior to the current SIII. So, it's not a good comparison with the models you have experience with.

I will be the first to admit that I love my SIII, but if I were in the market for a cheaper model, I doubt it would be a Sightron....

....but again, we are talking about the SIII which I consider an "upper-end" scope ;)
 
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Do I remember correctly? Didn't the entire US WBC team use Sightrons (that had been modified with nylon screws installed in opposition to both turrets), to...was it Sweden? And who was it that won that event? Refresh my memory; what year was that?
 
GG- I totally respect your opinions as I know how much experience you have with this stuff.....BUT I have an educated guess that there are not many SIII's on the BR circuit. Also, when you were in sales, I don't believe the SIII was around (I could be wrong).

Again, the SIII is awesome! The SI, and SII, and even very early versions of the SIII are inferior to the current SIII. So, it's not a good comparison with the models you have experience with.

I will be the first to admit that I love my SIII, but if I were in the market for a cheaper model, I doubt it would be a Sightron....

....but again, we are talking about the SIII which I consider an "upper-end" scope ;)


And I respect your opinions as well. If you say you like the SIII and it is awesome, I believe you compeletly. But we are going back to relative opinions again. The only thing we can go on that is not subjective is the equipment lists of benchrest matches. I invite you out to any of our NBRSA sanctioned matches at any distance so you can take a look around at the competitors if you don't have access to our equipment lists. There are two point blank in Springville this year which is near your home. We will have probably around 40 shooters for the one in May. Of those 40, you might see one or two SIghtrons. You'll see 5 or 6 Weavers, 6 or 7 March, and the rest will either be Leupold Comps or old Leupold 36x BR's like mine. I promise I'm not making any of this up! Come see for yourself.:)
 
Unfortunately, the March scopes are like Night force in the weight department--heavy!

Did I get cheated? Maybe March shorted me on the internals....my March 50X scales 21.1 ounces, and the assorted Nightforce vary from 33 to 36 ounces. That puts the Nightforce at 150% fat and makes the March tie with a Leupold Competition which is the lightest, high power, 30MM bench rest scope I'm aware of. What's the deal:rolleyes:

I think you missed the point entirely here. In the context of BR where weight is a concern and was the point of view from which we were speaking, the Sightron BR and the Leupold 36x br are in one category. The March, the Leupold Comp and the Nightforce are heavy and in the heavy category requiring compensation in other ways if one intends to make a light weight varmint. Your March is just fine. I'm sure it has all it's parts.;)
 
Do I remember correctly? Didn't the entire US WBC team use Sightrons (that had been modified with nylon screws installed in opposition to both turrets), to...was it Sweden? And who was it that won that event? Refresh my memory; what year was that?

Don't remember what year but it was recently. But those were SII fixed benchrest models, not SIII's which are reported to be better. Unfortunately, I don't think they make a BR model in SIII. BUt you're right, they were all "frozen" or "locked" down. ANd refresh my memory, weren't they all supplied to the shooters similar to how they supply the powder and the solvent the WBC team has to use?


I know you don't compete Boyd but I've heard you hover around some of the California shoots. What have you seen?
 
I have known many of the competitors for many years, and I like to stay in touch. I used to compete, but health issues have made it less fun, so it has been about three years since I shot a match. When I did, I was a middle of the pack shooter, only having won 2 or three matches total. Nevertheless I try to stay up with the latest on the technical side. Did I get it wrong, or did you mean hover and don't compete to sound condescending, or did it just come off that way? I have read some of your posts on the competition only board, but we aren't there are we?
 
I have read some of your posts on the competition only board, but we aren't there are we?



Since when has the competition only board stopped non-competitors from coming on there and telling those who do compete "how to play the game"??:eek: I'm not sure why it would matter that we're on the general board now but maybe I'm not understanding why you mentioned the above quote?


As to your question, no intent of condescension. I could have used "hang out", "watch", "go to", "observe", etc. Whatever you please. If you're intimidated by competitors, any of the above words would seem condescending to you I suppose. No harm intended, I just knew you had your fingers in it to some extent and was curious as to what you had seen. What did you compete with? What's the ratios you've noticed?


Perhaps it doesn't even matter since the thread starter hasn't been back on here since the minute he posted his question. Maybe this is all muddy water under the bridge anyway.
 
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I have not seen very many Sightrons at matches either. Of the Japanese scopes, Weavers were the most popular, with and occasional B&L. I think that the whole Sightron with set screw thing was well pre-March, and went away as other options became available. Also, I think shooters became aware that the problem (at least with Leupolds)may have been with the erector tube pivot, rather than at the turrets. Since it is my understanding that Japanese scopes all use a pivot system that is different than Leupold, and are pretty much alike in this part of their designs, I would be interested to hear shooters' experiences with these scopes insofar as holding POI goes. I also would be interested in hearing about experiences with the latest 36X Big Sky Sightron.
 
Boyd

I only have two rifles I've ever pulled Leupold scopes from (other than to send back to Leupold). I have replaced all my Leupold's with Sightrons. The old Leupold's need to go to the classifieds and the new in the box Leupold's need to find another home. I have been a Leupold user from 1975 until I got tired of returning them because of erector tube failures. I was a dyed in the wool Leupold fan for many years until I faced the truth about Leupold. I have never had a problem with my 1.5-5 Leupold's so they stay on my scoped .375H&H's. I do have other brand of scopes that have not caused any problems, but the average guy they are just out of reach price wise. No POI with Sightron scopes and I do recommend them for the guy that wants a scope for here in Alaska. Now watch, tomorrow I'll get a return in the mail.
 
......take a look around at the competitors if you don't have access to our equipment lists. There are two point blank in Springville this year which is near your home. We will have probably around 40 shooters for the one in May. Of those 40, you might see one or two SIghtrons. You'll see 5 or 6 Weavers, 6 or 7 March, and the rest will either be Leupold Comps or old Leupold 36x BR's like mine. I promise I'm not making any of this up! Come see for yourself.:)

When I was going to get into BR, I started looking very heavy at equipment lists, and you are right. Leupolds dominate the list. I may of got off base a little on this one, because I wanted to defend the SIII. I have little experience with the SI and SII models, so I can't defend those. I shoot a lot of long distance stuff, and that's where the SIII shines. Great optics and great tracking.
I know I would enjoy BR and someday I will get into it. What scope I will choose is still a mystery to me, but I think my decision will be heavily influenced by equipment lists for the winners :D
 
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I only have two rifles I've ever pulled Leupold scopes from (other than to send back to Leupold). I have replaced all my Leupold's with Sightrons. The old Leupold's need to go to the classifieds and the new in the box Leupold's need to find another home. I have been a Leupold user from 1975 until I got tired of returning them because of erector tube failures. I was a dyed in the wool Leupold fan for many years until I faced the truth about Leupold. I have never had a problem with my 1.5-5 Leupold's so they stay on my scoped .375H&H's. I do have other brand of scopes that have not caused any problems, but the average guy they are just out of reach price wise. No POI with Sightron scopes and I do recommend them for the guy that wants a scope for here in Alaska. Now watch, tomorrow I'll get a return in the mail.



I guess I'm the one who has lived a charmed life because I personally own 11 Leupold scopes and have them on sheep rifles (extreme abuse), elk rifles (bad abuse), 1000+ yard varmint rifles (lots of wear and tear on the erector), walk around varmint rifles thrown on 4 wheelers, and even a Premier boosted Leupold atop a 2000+ yard varmint rifle (knob twisting murder on an erector) and have never had a minute's trouble.

To date, two of my rifles have been used to kill over 40 head of big game all over the western U.S. from various distances from 525 yards to over 1400 yards. In these extreme distances, if the scopes were as bad as they've been for you, none of these shots would be possible, let alone DONE. Even my 15 year old 36x that's on my ppc was bought used and was abused but I have never sent it back. I have mounted it on a rail gun and it's spot on as any March.

I guess I've just been lucky. But wait, it isn't just me!:eek: I forgot to mention that I've sold thousands of Leupolds to customers and clients and there has been only a handful that had to be sent back and I'd be willing to bet a lot of those people are even harder on their gear than me!

And let us not forget, Tony Boyer took a Leupold Comp (unaltered), mounted it on his rifle, and proceeded to win how many more HOF points and how many big matches? Perhaps he just got the "good" one as did I.;)
 
Leupolds vs. Sightron

I can honestly say I've never had a problem with Leupold. I have owned many over the years and they've been mounted on everything from semi autos to custom varmint rifles; never had to send one back. I own quite a few Sightrons and never had a problem. My scopes get used under field conditions with plenty of clicking up/down/left/right, they are not babied. Maybe I'm one of the lucky few and should count my blessings.

Lou Baccino
 
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Sorry!!!

Sorry guys didn't mean to turn this in a Leupold vs Sightron thing. I had a 6.5x20x50 Mark 4 with the TMR mounted on top of a Remington 700ss 5-R Mil-spec and it was a fine scope loved it, but I have spent enough money on my new project that the wife is not very happy. The Mark 4 is around $1250 the fixed S3 20x42 is around $550 was just wondering was it worth mounting on top of my Sendero 7mm mag for some 1000yrd plinking?? Just set her in my brand new Medalist A-5 tonight and it is SWEET!!!!!!
 
I guess to many people remember the story about Tony and Hart barrels from years ago to let anything get in Tony's hands that was in anyway not perfect. Needless to say from that episode Tony is the last guy in this world you want to have pissed at you or your company.
 
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